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Tonight on History's Greatest Mysteries,

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our conclusion to Roswell, the first witness.

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Previously, a former CIA operative, Ben Smith,

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investigates what really crashed near Roswell, New Mexico in 1947.

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I'm not sure I buy that whole balloon theory.

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Really? Yeah.

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The focus, a mysterious journal found among the possessions of Jesse Marcell,

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the first official to arrive at the scene.

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A top cryptologist believes it may contain coded messages.

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To a cryptographer, this indicates a certain kind of cipher.

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Perhaps details on what Marcell really saw.

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He saw the spaceship.

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I'm Lawrence Fishburne, and tonight,

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the Hunt for the Mysterious Journal's author continues.

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Was it a fellow officer in Jesse Marcell's tight-knit group

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who knew exactly what he knew?

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Ben Smith is hot on the trail.

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Was one of these men the author of the journal?

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Was it written by a U.S. Army officer with inside information on Roswell?

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There are some words and letter combinations I do see in agreement.

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This man is at the nexus of all the secrets.

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And what did Jesse Marcell tell his own family

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years before he ever went public?

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He told us that they had told him to change the story.

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I found all of this stuff, and I was told you were my son.

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Did an extraterrestrial spacecraft crash near Roswell?

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The conclusion to our investigation begins now.

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At energies among his own people in his quiet bayou community

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the spread of Aryan's

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many, many more than madly aumentar its milk

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over the years.

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낮ened on the ship,

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spent the last 36 years of his life.

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At ease among his own people in his quiet Bayou community,

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Smith believes Marcel may have divulged details

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about the UFO crash to family and friends.

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They're Mr. and Mrs. Marcel.

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They must have liked you.

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They have smiles on their faces.

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Oh, in the book, she says, you could sell refrigerators

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to Eskimos, because I was so persuasive in making

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him talk about things.

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And she could see that I was getting things.

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And that's him and I together.

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I have my Nicholls State University t-shirt on.

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And oh, my gosh.

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Such a long time ago.

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Linda Corley met Marcel in 1981 when

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she taped an interview with him for her undergraduate psychology

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course at Nicholls State University.

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Marcel was retired and living with his wife, Vio.

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In 2007, she turned her interview with Jesse

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into a book entitled For the sake of my country.

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I had a little cassette tape recorder,

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and I asked if it was all right.

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He said, sure.

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OK.

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Please don't break.

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Please don't break.

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Yeah.

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I can see this.

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But the truth is that I think that I have never seen before.

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And I haven't seen that before in this kind of thing.

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When I got home, I'd rest on the step before the kitchen.

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My son was very, very old.

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He was.

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So he had to stay on the floor in the kitchen.

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I don't think I've ever heard of that.

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There's one that I picked up.

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And he just picked up and put it back on.

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I didn't mention it.

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They said, I don't know.

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I kept asking all through the interview,

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can you tell me something that's not in the book?

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Linda is referring to the first book to alleged government

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cover-up at Roswell, called The Roswell Incident.

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It was written by Charles Berlitz and William Moore in 1980.

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It relied heavily on the testimony of Jesse Marcell.

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I asked him that a million times.

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Can't you tell me something that's not in the book?

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Yeah.

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And he did.

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What Marcell told Linda was that his son Jesse, Jr.

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had described the degree he'd handled inaccurately.

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Jesse, Jr., who was 11 at the time,

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claimed he'd picked up small support

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structs, which he called I-beams.

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The most unusual part of the degree that I saw

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was the I-beam fragments, or what I recall as being I-beam,

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because they were very light, very strong,

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and they had some writing along the inside surface of this.

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And that was the thing that really set

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the support from anything I'd ever seen before.

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He was talking about the symbols that he saw on the debris.

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And Mrs. Marcell said, I think I have Jesse, Jr.'s drawing

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of that.

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And he said, well, Jesse got all that wrong anyway.

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I had a composition book.

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And I'm like, well, here, why don't you draw me something?

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The clip I want you to hear is of what he says as he's drawing.

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Prominence.

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Plus, yes, she's drawing.

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He didn't have that right to begin with.

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Now, what do you think is unique?

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0, here, here, here, of three.

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Would they be like this?

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Others are like that.

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Cut these.

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This way, that way, you know, just...

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All go in from left to right, like a...

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And I said, now will you sign it?

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And he said, yeah, I can't believe I had the wherewithal

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to even say that.

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And then he signed it.

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And he drew the beam, which you can see is not an I-beam.

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It's not an I-beam.

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Yeah.

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He told me that there were pink and purple,

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and so I wrote that.

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That's my handwriting.

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Yeah.

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So these are some of my beginning sketches,

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some what he told me.

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Yeah, that's something that could never figure out.

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Are we talking about wood or are we talking about metal?

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He called it wood.

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He was specific about that.

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But he said it wouldn't burn.

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How do you know it didn't burn?

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He tried to burn it with a cigarette lighter.

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He said it felt like wood.

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It looked like wood, but it wouldn't burn, so it can't be wood.

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It has to be something I've never seen before on this earth,

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that kind of thing.

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Yeah.

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Hmm.

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I asked him, why didn't you save some of it?

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Why didn't you do that?

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I would have saved a piece of it.

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Right.

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I found all of this stuff, and I was told to do a mouth shut.

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I heard about it this spring, with 32 years,

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when I'd say anything about it.

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You didn't think of that one?

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That's right.

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It says it in the first song, too.

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I don't think I was intelligent and secure, at least.

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I still hold religious to my country.

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It was fine, but I couldn't give you a mouth shut.

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But anything that might be crucial for murderous secrets.

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His choice of words always stuck in my mind.

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I sat on this premium for 32 years.

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I don't want any publicity.

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All I want is peace.

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He said that more than once, I just want peace.

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Why don't you have peace?

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He could have sat on it for another 32 years.

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Why did he talk?

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Had to have been bothering him.

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Had to have been something he wanted to get off his chest.

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Yeah.

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That's true.

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I have three tapes that last about four hours.

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And during that time, we had bonded so close together.

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Yeah.

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He says, you're welcome here any time.

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Linda says that when she went home,

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she couldn't stop looking at the symbols Jesse had drawn.

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I had studied writing and codes and scripts for other things.

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And I came home that night and I looked up some different ancient writings.

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And there was exactly what he drew.

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Exactly what he drew.

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Linda says that what Jesse drew resembled a kind of shorthand called Tyronian Notes

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that were first used in ancient Rome around 4 BC.

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She says the symbols Jesse drew signify travel and flight.

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I went back the next day.

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I was invited in cordially again.

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And I showed him some of the writing.

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I mean, look, this one here, these slashes here.

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This is almost exactly what he drew.

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And there's a decipher for that.

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I went into detail about where this writing could have come from.

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Yeah.

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I think I saw that.

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And it got pretty intense about the writing.

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I left on good terms, come back any time you want.

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Yeah.

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And then he calls.

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He said, do not use what I gave you.

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Everything is a lie.

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And the next call was don't go to the media with it.

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He was so arrayed on the phone.

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OK.

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I can still see myself.

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I didn't do anything.

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I'm not going to do that.

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This is for school.

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You know?

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I'm not going to the media with this.

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So I never heard from him again.

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I was crushed.

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What do you think caused that change?

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Well, I think the second visit, what happened and transpired there is why he called and

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said, don't use it.

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And the only thing that transpired in that second visit were photos of the ancient writings.

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The ancient writings.

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Yeah.

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Huh.

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What if he was told that writing means something to the government or whatever and you shouldn't

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tell.

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You know, you shouldn't have drawn it.

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You should have written it.

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You know, what if it was something that was alien and he's too afraid to let it out.

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So, you know, those are what ifs because I don't know what else to think about those

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phone calls.

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What else can I think?

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Did he ever mention that he was close to anyone on base, anyone who was especially important

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to him?

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He talked about Kavut quite a bit.

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He thought extremely highly of Colonel Blanchard.

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Colonel Blanchard had refused to transfer him three months later and said he was more important

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and needed there, but somebody else wanted him out.

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And he didn't care for General Raimi.

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He said General Raimi knew it wasn't aware of the bullet.

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So do you believe Jesse's story?

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Yeah.

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I believe Jesse believes.

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I was always a believer that Jesse believed.

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Nothing stood out as phony.

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Nothing stood out as fate.

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Did you ever feel like he had a secret that he wasn't sharing with you?

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Well he says that I'm not telling you everything.

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He does.

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There's still things I can't tell you.

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And I'm like, why?

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And he says, for the sake of my country.

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For the sake of my country.

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That's why I named the book, For the sake of my country.

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Yeah.

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He's telling me I've been bulging everything that you know that you know.

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I can't.

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Ben Smith has just heard a tape interview with Jesse Marcel.

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In which Marcel says it was his duty to stay quiet about Roswell.

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He's still not bulging everything that you know that you know.

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I can't.

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Well, it's a good thing for my country.

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Now Smith has come to New York City to better understand why Marcel felt extreme pressure

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to keep his secret long after he left the military.

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Hi Ben.

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Hi Leslie.

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Come in.

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Thank you.

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Leslie Kane, author of the best selling book UFOs, generals, pilots and government officials

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go on the record says it's risky for members of the military to speak openly about UFOs.

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For people in the military, there is this taboo, this stigma around the topic of UFOs.

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They're afraid to talk about it that it might somehow affect their positions in their careers.

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There's the respect they have of their colleagues.

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Somebody might think there's something wrong with them.

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Those attitudes are still there, unfortunately.

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It sounds like you're convinced there's a taboo about UFOs.

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That stigma is a big factor for sort of the individual out there who has a sighting.

262
00:13:00,840 --> 00:13:05,560
And it's also a big factor as to why there isn't more of a search being done by the scientific

263
00:13:05,560 --> 00:13:12,040
community because there's no money to fund projects that involve something that's taboo

264
00:13:12,080 --> 00:13:14,080
basically.

265
00:13:14,080 --> 00:13:15,360
But I think it's gotten a lot better.

266
00:13:15,360 --> 00:13:22,640
I think the December 17th New York Times story 2017 really shifted things.

267
00:13:22,640 --> 00:13:28,960
In December 2017, Leslie Kane broke the story that the Pentagon was running a secret program

268
00:13:28,960 --> 00:13:31,160
to investigate UFOs.

269
00:13:31,160 --> 00:13:37,640
Although officially, the military claimed all UFO research had stopped in the 1960s.

270
00:13:37,640 --> 00:13:41,800
The Pentagon had a secret program that started in 2007.

271
00:13:41,800 --> 00:13:48,000
But sources have told me that there were programs there before that.

272
00:13:48,000 --> 00:13:53,360
Kane uncovered not only a top secret program, but actual proof that military pilots reported

273
00:13:53,360 --> 00:13:56,760
sightings of UFOs more than once.

274
00:13:56,760 --> 00:14:01,000
The online version of the story, which is the one that most people read, included two

275
00:14:01,000 --> 00:14:07,240
official Department of Defense videos taken of objects, unidentified objects.

276
00:14:07,240 --> 00:14:09,240
They were clear for public release.

277
00:14:09,240 --> 00:14:15,600
There's a whole fleet of them, look on the FAA.

278
00:14:15,600 --> 00:14:20,560
Those videos were spectacular and they drew a lot of attention to the article.

279
00:14:20,560 --> 00:14:25,040
And as far as I'm aware, this is the first time we actual government videos have been

280
00:14:25,040 --> 00:14:27,480
released of UFOs.

281
00:14:27,480 --> 00:14:39,760
But Kane says that before the videos were leaked, the pilots felt intense pressure not

282
00:14:39,760 --> 00:14:42,640
to reveal what they had witnessed.

283
00:14:42,640 --> 00:14:43,640
These are patriots.

284
00:14:43,640 --> 00:14:48,000
These are people who are responsible for the lives of American citizens.

285
00:14:48,000 --> 00:14:51,040
Highly trained, highly credible.

286
00:14:51,040 --> 00:14:54,080
When they see something, they're not supposed to talk about it.

287
00:14:54,080 --> 00:14:56,600
There's nowhere for them to report it.

288
00:14:56,600 --> 00:15:01,680
It just, for me, it borders on just a kind of irrationality and disrespect.

289
00:15:01,680 --> 00:15:06,360
They struggle with this and they feel that their own government doesn't take them seriously.

290
00:15:06,360 --> 00:15:10,120
That's the problem.

291
00:15:10,120 --> 00:15:15,480
Ben Smith sees similarities between these events and what Jesse Marcell's family says

292
00:15:15,480 --> 00:15:19,160
happened to him in 1947.

293
00:15:19,160 --> 00:15:24,960
Jesse Marcell Sr. told his grandchildren that Fort Worth, when it was the second press release

294
00:15:24,960 --> 00:15:30,560
with General Ramey, Jesse was paraded into the room because he was the first individual

295
00:15:30,560 --> 00:15:35,280
on the scene and he was in the Flying Saucer Report the day before and they put out this

296
00:15:35,280 --> 00:15:40,160
debris and Jesse told his grandchildren that that was not the debris that he recovered.

297
00:15:40,160 --> 00:15:42,680
But he had to pretend it was during the press conference.

298
00:15:42,680 --> 00:15:45,760
He was told to shut his mouth and to just play along.

299
00:15:45,760 --> 00:15:46,840
That was his claim.

300
00:15:46,840 --> 00:15:52,640
Back in the day, that was so common that these high-level military people would know a lot

301
00:15:52,640 --> 00:15:57,600
but feel they couldn't say it and then they just go to their graves and that's it.

302
00:15:57,600 --> 00:16:00,800
I have a lot of respect for them, Marcells and the Roswell Witnesses.

303
00:16:00,800 --> 00:16:01,800
Absolutely.

304
00:16:01,800 --> 00:16:06,800
When you see them talking or you hear them, they are as convincing as anything and I have

305
00:16:06,800 --> 00:16:10,840
no doubt that they believe 100% in what they're saying.

306
00:16:10,840 --> 00:16:13,240
They're not lying or anything.

307
00:16:13,240 --> 00:16:14,840
They had an experience.

308
00:16:14,840 --> 00:16:16,440
They found something.

309
00:16:16,440 --> 00:16:21,040
They believe that it is what they say it is and they are extremely convincing.

310
00:16:21,040 --> 00:16:26,720
You absolutely have to take it seriously and I just wish there was more information to

311
00:16:26,720 --> 00:16:30,720
prove them right.

312
00:16:30,720 --> 00:16:35,200
That proof could lie hidden in the journal that Jesse Marcell kept among his most prized

313
00:16:35,200 --> 00:16:37,320
possessions.

314
00:16:37,320 --> 00:16:42,200
So far Smith's investigation has proven that the journal is authentic, dates from the time

315
00:16:42,200 --> 00:16:49,400
of the Roswell incident and that Marcell is not its author.

316
00:16:49,400 --> 00:16:56,360
Smith wants to find out who wrote the journal, why and what it means.

317
00:16:56,360 --> 00:17:01,360
Without intuition to find the information, you're useless and journalism or intelligence,

318
00:17:01,360 --> 00:17:02,360
right?

319
00:17:02,360 --> 00:17:04,280
So you've got to follow your gut because that's where you find the best gold.

320
00:17:04,280 --> 00:17:08,080
If it was easy to find, someone would have found it by now.

321
00:17:08,080 --> 00:17:13,200
To plot his next steps, Smith meets with Joe Papalardo, a veteran aviation journalist with

322
00:17:13,200 --> 00:17:20,360
a deep understanding of American military history and the Roswell story.

323
00:17:20,360 --> 00:17:27,840
So Craig, the cryptographer, had some interesting insights that I did not pick up on and right

324
00:17:27,840 --> 00:17:33,200
away actually he picked up on some things that could actually indicate code.

325
00:17:33,200 --> 00:17:34,200
Craig.

326
00:17:34,200 --> 00:17:35,200
Oh hi.

327
00:17:35,200 --> 00:17:36,200
Must be Ben.

328
00:17:36,200 --> 00:17:37,200
That's right.

329
00:17:37,200 --> 00:17:38,200
Good to meet you.

330
00:17:38,200 --> 00:17:41,680
When Smith took the journal to Craig Bauer, one of the nation's top code breakers, Bauer

331
00:17:41,680 --> 00:17:47,160
thought it could be written in a homebrew code, a pattern of letters or words invented

332
00:17:47,160 --> 00:17:48,400
by the writer.

333
00:17:48,400 --> 00:17:52,640
To create something just between friends, it's not that hard to make it really hard

334
00:17:52,640 --> 00:17:55,120
to break.

335
00:17:55,120 --> 00:17:59,880
This potential homebrew code started just after Roswell.

336
00:17:59,880 --> 00:18:04,160
In August 1947, we get this weird kind of writing.

337
00:18:04,160 --> 00:18:08,160
So whatever it is, it's correlated to that strange date.

338
00:18:08,160 --> 00:18:11,840
Now we still don't have the author, so we can't quite tell what it is.

339
00:18:11,840 --> 00:18:14,720
I don't know, Zodiac was like that and they broke that code, didn't they?

340
00:18:14,720 --> 00:18:18,280
As long as it says something, you should be able to break it.

341
00:18:18,280 --> 00:18:22,800
If someone in the 509th wrote the journal and we can identify who, it might lead us

342
00:18:22,800 --> 00:18:26,920
to other documents that allow us to interpret its meaning.

343
00:18:26,920 --> 00:18:30,240
Sort of like a broken locket where you have one half and I have the other.

344
00:18:30,240 --> 00:18:32,800
We put them together and it's a treasure map.

345
00:18:32,800 --> 00:18:37,160
So who in your estimation would be someone that we'd be interested in hearing from at

346
00:18:37,160 --> 00:18:39,520
the time who would give him this journal?

347
00:18:39,520 --> 00:18:46,800
Well, as I understand, the Roswell Army Air Force Base had almost 8,000 personnel in 1947.

348
00:18:46,800 --> 00:18:49,120
It's a huge base.

349
00:18:49,120 --> 00:18:54,840
But I think it would be helpful to focus my search on the 509th group and then his counterintelligence

350
00:18:54,840 --> 00:18:55,840
group.

351
00:18:55,840 --> 00:18:59,160
That would be the kind of person that would have information that would be worth safeguarding

352
00:18:59,160 --> 00:19:05,000
and they'd give it to the point man for the whole Roswell incident.

353
00:19:05,000 --> 00:19:10,040
As the intelligence officer in Roswell, Marcel was trusted with the military's most protected

354
00:19:10,040 --> 00:19:12,120
secrets.

355
00:19:12,120 --> 00:19:20,080
And according to his grandson, he stayed silent about what he saw in 1947 to protect his family.

356
00:19:20,080 --> 00:19:25,680
When my grandfather started talking about his experience with the Roswell UFO, he was careful

357
00:19:25,680 --> 00:19:27,000
about what he told us.

358
00:19:27,000 --> 00:19:30,200
He didn't want to tell us something that we could tell somebody that might lead us in

359
00:19:30,200 --> 00:19:34,960
a position where we could have felt threatened.

360
00:19:34,960 --> 00:19:39,920
Part of Marcel's job was to share valuable intelligence with an inner circle of officers

361
00:19:39,920 --> 00:19:42,600
at the 509th bomber group.

362
00:19:42,600 --> 00:19:46,280
Smith thinks whoever wrote the journal might have been sharing something valuable with

363
00:19:46,280 --> 00:19:48,840
Marcel.

364
00:19:48,840 --> 00:19:55,080
I'm hoping that I can get more handwriting samples of other people in the 509th group

365
00:19:55,080 --> 00:19:59,720
to see if this might have been passed to him by somebody else within the bomber group.

366
00:19:59,720 --> 00:20:03,360
I would suggest if they're in the 509th and if they were officers, they may have actually

367
00:20:03,360 --> 00:20:05,040
served in World War II.

368
00:20:05,040 --> 00:20:08,480
The hand wrote a lot of after-action reports.

369
00:20:08,480 --> 00:20:13,880
If they're officers, there may be handwriting samples that are in World War II bombing records

370
00:20:13,880 --> 00:20:17,000
and archives where they flew in from the bombing assessments.

371
00:20:17,000 --> 00:20:18,000
There's a lot of information.

372
00:20:18,000 --> 00:20:19,760
You might actually get a little trove there.

373
00:20:19,760 --> 00:20:22,120
You might not, but hey, at least it's a rock to kick over.

374
00:20:22,120 --> 00:20:23,520
Yeah, that's an interesting point.

375
00:20:23,520 --> 00:20:25,040
I hadn't considered that.

376
00:20:25,040 --> 00:20:28,800
Cracking this part of your mystery is only one good search away.

377
00:20:28,800 --> 00:20:33,120
If you find out who, let's do a handwriting analysis, then you could find out a little

378
00:20:33,120 --> 00:20:42,240
bit more of the motive why.

379
00:20:42,240 --> 00:20:45,880
I'm on my way to meet Jennifer Nassau, the handwriting expert.

380
00:20:45,880 --> 00:20:51,960
I have with me a number of handwriting samples belonging to the people closest to Jesse Marcel

381
00:20:51,960 --> 00:20:55,880
during the time of the Rodwell incident.

382
00:20:55,880 --> 00:21:00,520
Ben Smith has been researching Jesse Marcel's fellow officers in the 509th.

383
00:21:00,520 --> 00:21:05,800
He's gotten writing samples for six individuals, an inner circle that must have known details

384
00:21:05,800 --> 00:21:10,080
about what really crashed at Roswell.

385
00:21:10,080 --> 00:21:14,360
If it didn't belong to Jesse and he kept it in his most prized possessions, it had to

386
00:21:14,360 --> 00:21:17,120
belong to somebody important to him.

387
00:21:17,120 --> 00:21:22,400
Now the question is, does anybody's writing match the journal?

388
00:21:22,400 --> 00:21:24,640
Come on in.

389
00:21:24,640 --> 00:21:26,920
I'm back with more work for you.

390
00:21:26,920 --> 00:21:28,000
Tell me what you have.

391
00:21:28,000 --> 00:21:32,960
I took the journal to a code breaking expert.

392
00:21:32,960 --> 00:21:37,040
First of all, he took a look at the journal and to his eye, a few things immediately popped

393
00:21:37,040 --> 00:21:40,960
up that suggested there might be some kind of code.

394
00:21:40,960 --> 00:21:47,320
Now he ran the numbers and was not able to find any coherent message that does not correspond

395
00:21:47,320 --> 00:21:48,600
to a letter.

396
00:21:48,600 --> 00:21:55,400
So his next best guess was that maybe there was some kind of encryption system that only

397
00:21:55,400 --> 00:21:57,360
the author knew of.

398
00:21:57,360 --> 00:22:00,520
So that gets back to the question, well, who wrote it?

399
00:22:00,520 --> 00:22:01,520
Who is the author?

400
00:22:01,520 --> 00:22:03,560
Who is the author?

401
00:22:03,560 --> 00:22:11,160
So I have brought a number of handwriting samples from key individuals at the Roswell

402
00:22:11,160 --> 00:22:13,240
Army Air Force Base.

403
00:22:13,240 --> 00:22:20,400
Let me start with Colonel Blanchard, who was Jesse Marcel's direct commanding officer

404
00:22:20,400 --> 00:22:24,680
and the head of the 509th bomber group.

405
00:22:24,680 --> 00:22:31,000
In 1947, Colonel William Butch Blanchard was commander of the 509th bomber group based

406
00:22:31,000 --> 00:22:32,000
at Roswell.

407
00:22:32,000 --> 00:22:38,400
A highly decorated World War II hero who had helped plan the Enola-gaze bombing of Hiroshima,

408
00:22:38,400 --> 00:22:42,680
Blanchard was in charge of America's only nuclear attack force.

409
00:22:42,680 --> 00:22:47,360
It was a job in which he would certainly know about any top secret operation involving his

410
00:22:47,360 --> 00:22:49,240
air base.

411
00:22:49,240 --> 00:22:53,280
The officer he might have been closest to was Jesse Marcel.

412
00:22:53,280 --> 00:22:58,800
Colonel Blanchard's and the Marcel's were regular bridge partners.

413
00:22:58,800 --> 00:23:06,840
We have Walter Hott, the press corps officer who organized the press releases and wrote

414
00:23:06,840 --> 00:23:10,120
the infamous flying saucer press release.

415
00:23:10,120 --> 00:23:15,400
As the base public information officer, Lieutenant Walter Hott was ordered by Blanchard to draft

416
00:23:15,400 --> 00:23:20,320
that famous press release that a flying disc had been recovered.

417
00:23:20,320 --> 00:23:25,600
In his later years, Hott came forward to say he believed Marcel had been telling the truth

418
00:23:25,600 --> 00:23:33,160
and went so far as to say that he himself had glimpsed bodies of aliens.

419
00:23:33,160 --> 00:23:36,920
We have Bob Scherke.

420
00:23:36,920 --> 00:23:41,760
Lieutenant Robert Scherke was assistant group operations officer for the 509th.

421
00:23:41,760 --> 00:23:45,960
If the degree was extraterrestrial, Scherke would have been in charge of arranging its

422
00:23:45,960 --> 00:23:51,920
transport to the Army's top secret research facility, Wright Patterson.

423
00:23:51,920 --> 00:23:56,920
After retiring from the military, Scherke later claimed that Jesse Marcel was telling

424
00:23:56,920 --> 00:23:57,920
the truth.

425
00:23:57,920 --> 00:24:01,120
And over here we have Edwin Easley.

426
00:24:01,120 --> 00:24:06,320
Edwin Easley was the provost-martial at the 509th bomber group.

427
00:24:06,320 --> 00:24:09,440
Major Edwin Easley was in charge of base security.

428
00:24:09,440 --> 00:24:13,440
He would have been responsible for safeguarding the debris and controlling which personnel

429
00:24:13,440 --> 00:24:15,120
had access to it.

430
00:24:15,120 --> 00:24:22,400
In this capacity, it's not unreasonable to assume he knew what the crates contained.

431
00:24:22,400 --> 00:24:27,480
He would have been responsible for organizing the cleanup effort to pull in to collect the

432
00:24:27,480 --> 00:24:28,480
debris.

433
00:24:28,480 --> 00:24:32,400
We also have Patrick Saunders.

434
00:24:32,400 --> 00:24:38,600
Patrick Saunders was the office administrator for Colonel Blanchard.

435
00:24:38,600 --> 00:24:45,280
So he would have been involved in all the record keeping and issuing orders.

436
00:24:45,280 --> 00:24:48,400
Patrick Saunders was Colonel Blanchard's top deputy.

437
00:24:48,400 --> 00:24:53,280
He had flown 37 combat missions in World War II and had just as many medals as his

438
00:24:53,280 --> 00:24:54,640
boss.

439
00:24:54,640 --> 00:24:59,200
As Colonel Blanchard's number two, he would have been in the room when Jesse Marcel returned

440
00:24:59,200 --> 00:25:05,520
from the debris field and debriefed the Colonel.

441
00:25:05,520 --> 00:25:10,400
If there's anybody at the 509th bomber group who knows everything, it's this guy Patrick

442
00:25:10,400 --> 00:25:11,400
Saunders.

443
00:25:11,400 --> 00:25:16,000
So if this handwriting matched, it would mean everything to the journal because here is a

444
00:25:16,000 --> 00:25:23,040
man who had access to all kinds of secrets who may have wanted to confide something in

445
00:25:23,040 --> 00:25:24,040
Jesse Marcel.

446
00:25:24,040 --> 00:25:25,040
Okay.

447
00:25:25,040 --> 00:25:29,480
So we'll compare these writings to the journal.

448
00:25:29,480 --> 00:25:34,400
So what I notice right off the bat with the Blanchard signature, that's all the writing

449
00:25:34,400 --> 00:25:35,920
that we have, correct?

450
00:25:35,920 --> 00:25:37,040
Right.

451
00:25:37,040 --> 00:25:43,200
Just having the one signature to compare to a extended body of text writing poses a big

452
00:25:43,200 --> 00:25:45,720
limitation to the examination.

453
00:25:45,720 --> 00:25:53,480
From what I see in the Patrick Saunders writing, while there's a bit more than just one signature,

454
00:25:53,480 --> 00:25:56,040
it's really just the one sentence.

455
00:25:56,040 --> 00:26:01,240
And so the limitation is still the lack of quantity of known writing.

456
00:26:01,240 --> 00:26:03,120
It's a bit of a blurry copy.

457
00:26:03,120 --> 00:26:04,120
Right.

458
00:26:04,160 --> 00:26:09,680
It's hard to tell the pen movements and some of the fine and subtle features of the formations

459
00:26:09,680 --> 00:26:14,280
of the letters might be lost in the image quality of that copy.

460
00:26:14,280 --> 00:26:20,360
Looking at the Walter Hott handwriting and the Bob Scherke writing, this is a more extended

461
00:26:20,360 --> 00:26:21,640
sample of writing.

462
00:26:21,640 --> 00:26:25,960
So there's going to be a lot more information, a lot more characteristics that I'm going

463
00:26:25,960 --> 00:26:28,200
to be able to compare to the journal.

464
00:26:28,360 --> 00:26:34,080
Well, even if you can provide any, even the slightest new piece of information on one

465
00:26:34,080 --> 00:26:41,320
or the other could help me eliminate one person from the group closest to Jesse Marcell.

466
00:26:41,320 --> 00:26:46,400
And if I have to, I may have to expand the search and move out from there to identify

467
00:26:46,400 --> 00:26:49,400
who could have given him this journal.

468
00:26:49,400 --> 00:26:54,320
Smith will leave the journal which was so precious to Jesse Marcell in Nassau's hands,

469
00:26:54,320 --> 00:26:55,920
hoping she can uncover its author.

470
00:26:58,200 --> 00:27:13,440
As the search for the journal's author escalates, Ben Smith returns to Jesse Marcell's hometown

471
00:27:13,440 --> 00:27:16,040
of Houma, Louisiana.

472
00:27:16,040 --> 00:27:20,960
Marcell's granddaughter Denise has convinced the extended Marcell family to divulge some

473
00:27:20,960 --> 00:27:25,160
of the strange things Jesse told them.

474
00:27:25,160 --> 00:27:28,680
So how is everyone related to Jesse Marcell?

475
00:27:28,680 --> 00:27:32,000
He was my brother-in-law's uncle.

476
00:27:32,000 --> 00:27:33,000
OK.

477
00:27:33,000 --> 00:27:36,480
But I always called him Uncle Jesse.

478
00:27:36,480 --> 00:27:39,240
You know, we all cousins.

479
00:27:39,240 --> 00:27:40,740
Yeah.

480
00:27:40,740 --> 00:27:44,280
My grandmother and Jesse were a brother and sister.

481
00:27:44,280 --> 00:27:45,280
Oh, wow.

482
00:27:45,280 --> 00:27:46,280
OK.

483
00:27:46,280 --> 00:27:48,960
So do you remember speaking to him a lot?

484
00:27:48,960 --> 00:27:49,960
Yes.

485
00:27:49,960 --> 00:27:50,960
Yeah.

486
00:27:50,960 --> 00:27:51,960
We were very close.

487
00:27:51,960 --> 00:27:54,240
We lived next door to him for ten years.

488
00:27:54,240 --> 00:27:57,040
I went over there a lot.

489
00:27:57,040 --> 00:28:01,880
Smith wants to know what they know from the lips of Marcell himself.

490
00:28:01,880 --> 00:28:03,520
Their memories seem clear.

491
00:28:03,520 --> 00:28:08,240
Wallace, how old were you when Jesse shared his story with you?

492
00:28:08,240 --> 00:28:09,240
I was a teenager.

493
00:28:09,240 --> 00:28:10,240
You were a teenager?

494
00:28:10,240 --> 00:28:11,240
Yeah.

495
00:28:11,240 --> 00:28:13,560
I want to say that was in 1957.

496
00:28:13,560 --> 00:28:17,240
1957, just ten years after Roswell.

497
00:28:17,240 --> 00:28:18,240
Yeah.

498
00:28:18,240 --> 00:28:19,240
OK.

499
00:28:19,240 --> 00:28:22,040
I was 12, 13 years old, something like that.

500
00:28:22,040 --> 00:28:23,040
Yeah.

501
00:28:23,040 --> 00:28:24,040
OK.

502
00:28:24,040 --> 00:28:28,880
I don't believe everything the government tells you.

503
00:28:28,880 --> 00:28:33,200
And he started telling me the story about the crash in Roswell.

504
00:28:33,200 --> 00:28:38,840
And that they forced him to lie about it.

505
00:28:38,840 --> 00:28:43,480
This means that two decades before he told the world, an extraterrestrial spacecraft

506
00:28:43,480 --> 00:28:45,120
had crashed.

507
00:28:45,120 --> 00:28:51,040
Marcell told the same story with the same details to the people he trusted.

508
00:28:51,040 --> 00:28:52,480
What details did he describe?

509
00:28:52,480 --> 00:28:54,880
Did he mention a UFO crash?

510
00:28:54,880 --> 00:28:55,880
Did he mention?

511
00:28:55,880 --> 00:28:57,680
He did tell me a UFO crash.

512
00:28:57,680 --> 00:28:58,680
OK.

513
00:28:58,680 --> 00:29:02,240
He was telling me about what it looked like.

514
00:29:02,240 --> 00:29:07,120
I put two and two together and figured, I think he's telling me that we got people from

515
00:29:07,120 --> 00:29:08,960
outer space coming here.

516
00:29:08,960 --> 00:29:09,960
OK.

517
00:29:09,960 --> 00:29:11,360
And what was your reaction then?

518
00:29:11,360 --> 00:29:12,360
What did you think?

519
00:29:12,360 --> 00:29:16,080
Looking up at the sky at night.

520
00:29:16,080 --> 00:29:17,080
Did you believe him?

521
00:29:17,080 --> 00:29:18,560
Of course I believed him.

522
00:29:18,560 --> 00:29:19,560
Yeah.

523
00:29:19,560 --> 00:29:21,800
I think Uncle Jesse would have lied to anybody.

524
00:29:21,800 --> 00:29:22,800
Right.

525
00:29:22,800 --> 00:29:24,920
He wasn't that type of man.

526
00:29:24,920 --> 00:29:27,240
Wallace remembers talking to Jesse.

527
00:29:27,240 --> 00:29:28,840
I don't remember talking to him.

528
00:29:28,840 --> 00:29:29,840
OK.

529
00:29:29,840 --> 00:29:35,520
But Jesse told my dad stories about the Roswell incident.

530
00:29:35,520 --> 00:29:41,240
And those stories went further than anything Jesse Marcell ever said in public.

531
00:29:41,240 --> 00:29:47,760
The thing that interests me the most was that Jesse drew a picture of an alien.

532
00:29:47,760 --> 00:29:49,280
Jesse drew a picture of an alien.

533
00:29:49,280 --> 00:29:50,280
Yeah.

534
00:29:50,280 --> 00:29:52,280
He hand drew a picture of an alien.

535
00:29:52,280 --> 00:29:53,280
Huh.

536
00:29:53,280 --> 00:29:54,280
Yeah.

537
00:29:54,280 --> 00:29:58,880
My dad lost that picture.

538
00:29:58,880 --> 00:30:07,680
But later on in life, he wrote what the picture looks like that Jesse drew for me.

539
00:30:07,680 --> 00:30:13,520
It looked like the picture that Jesse drew.

540
00:30:13,520 --> 00:30:14,520
Yeah.

541
00:30:14,520 --> 00:30:20,600
The first time I'm hearing any stories about Jesse himself drawing a referencing alien.

542
00:30:20,600 --> 00:30:25,320
I don't remember my dad ever saying that Jesse saw an alien.

543
00:30:25,320 --> 00:30:26,320
OK.

544
00:30:26,320 --> 00:30:30,240
Maybe somebody told him about this.

545
00:30:30,240 --> 00:30:36,040
So Wallace, do you think that extraterrestrials crashed in 1947?

546
00:30:36,040 --> 00:30:37,040
Yeah.

547
00:30:37,040 --> 00:30:38,040
OK.

548
00:30:38,040 --> 00:30:45,400
Did Jesse ever tell you, June, about his experience at Roswell?

549
00:30:45,400 --> 00:30:46,400
Yes.

550
00:30:46,400 --> 00:30:47,400
He did?

551
00:30:47,400 --> 00:30:48,400
He did.

552
00:30:48,400 --> 00:30:51,200
I think probably 74 to 76 somewhere in there.

553
00:30:51,200 --> 00:30:52,200
OK.

554
00:30:52,200 --> 00:30:54,800
He started talking to me about it.

555
00:30:54,800 --> 00:30:59,080
Basically what they're telling you too, he found wreckage.

556
00:30:59,080 --> 00:31:01,520
He said it was not of this world.

557
00:31:01,520 --> 00:31:06,920
He described the metal saying that you could crumble it up in your hand, but it would automatically

558
00:31:06,920 --> 00:31:10,240
go right back like it had memory.

559
00:31:10,240 --> 00:31:11,240
OK.

560
00:31:11,240 --> 00:31:12,440
He used the word memory.

561
00:31:12,440 --> 00:31:13,440
OK.

562
00:31:13,440 --> 00:31:20,120
And my daughter, who was Tim at the time, approached him and asked him, Uncle Jesse,

563
00:31:20,120 --> 00:31:23,200
were there any bodies?

564
00:31:23,200 --> 00:31:29,080
And he looked at her and she says his eyes kind of glazed over and he said, there are

565
00:31:29,080 --> 00:31:33,760
things that this world is not ready for.

566
00:31:33,760 --> 00:31:34,760
That's what he told your daughter.

567
00:31:34,760 --> 00:31:36,800
There are things this world is not ready for.

568
00:31:37,800 --> 00:31:43,880
In front of family members, Jesse displayed emotions he kept hidden from the outside world.

569
00:31:43,880 --> 00:31:48,600
He seemed angry at times about the government.

570
00:31:48,600 --> 00:31:57,080
He told us that they had told him to change the story and that it was not UFO wreckage,

571
00:31:57,080 --> 00:31:59,600
it was a weather balloon.

572
00:31:59,600 --> 00:32:06,640
I think it bothered him a lot, you know, that he was told to shut up about it.

573
00:32:06,640 --> 00:32:13,920
It was a very notable event in American history and he couldn't talk about it, you know,

574
00:32:13,920 --> 00:32:18,400
and it was him that found it, you know, and then had to lie.

575
00:32:18,400 --> 00:32:21,680
You know, so that tore him up.

576
00:32:21,680 --> 00:32:24,240
It really did.

577
00:32:24,240 --> 00:32:29,080
I think he needed to express himself about it.

578
00:32:29,080 --> 00:32:37,360
So back in 78, 79, he got sort of emboldened about it and decided he was going to talk.

579
00:32:37,360 --> 00:32:38,720
Yeah.

580
00:32:38,720 --> 00:32:45,320
But you heard all of these stories before there was any big media sensation about the story.

581
00:32:45,320 --> 00:32:49,720
He was being open with family about it.

582
00:32:49,720 --> 00:32:52,480
My family members were aware of that.

583
00:32:52,480 --> 00:32:57,200
It really upset him a lot that people thought that he was making it up.

584
00:32:57,920 --> 00:33:02,040
You know, he got a little, some ridicule, that kind of...

585
00:33:02,040 --> 00:33:06,120
Well, I know it wasn't from our family that he got that from.

586
00:33:06,120 --> 00:33:15,840
Outsiders would ridicule him and call him crazy Jesse because of when they started hearing about Roswell.

587
00:33:15,840 --> 00:33:23,840
It must be hard for an intelligence officer, a decorated veteran, to be ridiculed by his neighbors

588
00:33:23,840 --> 00:33:26,480
and his community.

589
00:33:26,920 --> 00:33:29,720
I think that would have been hard for him.

590
00:33:29,720 --> 00:33:33,040
Well, all the reports have been lost. All of the original files have been lost.

591
00:33:33,040 --> 00:33:40,960
So at this point in time, it really is Jesse's word against the government's word, right?

592
00:33:40,960 --> 00:33:49,480
One part of my investigation, and it's just a part, is to see, can we find any proof anywhere that this happened?

593
00:33:49,480 --> 00:33:50,600
Yeah.

594
00:33:50,600 --> 00:33:59,320
June, did Jesse ever hint that he might have something more?

595
00:33:59,320 --> 00:34:03,600
More information, more details, or maybe something hidden in his house?

596
00:34:06,080 --> 00:34:10,920
What he told me is he came home to Roswell.

597
00:34:10,920 --> 00:34:13,400
He had some wreckage in his car.

598
00:34:13,400 --> 00:34:18,320
He pulled it out and brought it inside and showed his family.

599
00:34:20,720 --> 00:34:25,560
But what other things he might have done?

600
00:34:25,560 --> 00:34:29,280
I don't know. He did not ever tell me that he had anything.

601
00:34:29,280 --> 00:34:34,760
You know, piece of the wreckage or anything like that?

602
00:34:34,760 --> 00:34:35,760
No.

603
00:34:42,160 --> 00:34:45,920
After meeting with the Marcell family in Jesse's hometown of Huma,

604
00:34:45,920 --> 00:34:53,920
former CIA investigator Ben Smith and Jesse's granddaughter Denise get the opportunity to meet someone outside the family,

605
00:34:53,920 --> 00:34:59,800
who claims Jesse shared with him extraordinary details of the Roswell incident,

606
00:34:59,800 --> 00:35:04,480
secrets that might lie hidden in the coded writing of the mysterious journal.

607
00:35:04,480 --> 00:35:09,800
He started off by saying, look, you know, this thing that happened to me was real.

608
00:35:09,800 --> 00:35:15,280
Calvin Parker says he was introduced to Jesse Marcell by a mutual acquaintance.

609
00:35:15,280 --> 00:35:23,360
Your granddaddy said that they staged a site away from the actual site to keep the general public away.

610
00:35:23,360 --> 00:35:30,040
They took weather balloons out to the field and tried to distribute little pieces around so that people could find them.

611
00:35:30,040 --> 00:35:32,200
That I have never heard.

612
00:35:32,200 --> 00:35:38,600
Parker claims that Jesse Marcell told him about an elaborate military operation to retrieve alien bodies

613
00:35:38,600 --> 00:35:44,600
and orchestrate a cover-up to make it look like a weather balloon had crashed.

614
00:35:44,720 --> 00:35:48,360
The first time he mentioned it, he said they was actually bodies out.

615
00:35:48,360 --> 00:35:49,960
He said that he saw some?

616
00:35:49,960 --> 00:35:51,160
Exactly.

617
00:35:51,160 --> 00:35:53,480
A special unit got to bodies.

618
00:35:53,480 --> 00:35:55,320
He wasn't part of that.

619
00:35:55,320 --> 00:35:58,720
They took him back to the base at Roswell.

620
00:35:58,720 --> 00:36:00,640
And he described all of this to you?

621
00:36:00,640 --> 00:36:02,240
He described every bit of it to me.

622
00:36:02,240 --> 00:36:04,600
It's so interesting that these are details that I've not heard before.

623
00:36:04,600 --> 00:36:05,560
Yeah, I've not heard anything.

624
00:36:05,560 --> 00:36:09,600
That he didn't tell Linda Corley, that he didn't tell his family members.

625
00:36:09,600 --> 00:36:11,080
That wasn't yet.

626
00:36:11,080 --> 00:36:12,360
That's pretty...

627
00:36:12,440 --> 00:36:18,800
Well, he felt like he could talk because I told him as long as he was alive, I would never say nothing about it.

628
00:36:18,800 --> 00:36:20,840
And I didn't.

629
00:36:20,840 --> 00:36:24,120
Out of my surprise, he told me, he said,

630
00:36:24,120 --> 00:36:28,280
I've got something that I want to show you.

631
00:36:28,280 --> 00:36:30,480
He said, I have evidence.

632
00:36:30,480 --> 00:36:31,440
I have proof.

633
00:36:31,440 --> 00:36:32,560
He has proof.

634
00:36:32,560 --> 00:36:35,240
Jesse said he had proof.

635
00:36:35,240 --> 00:36:39,080
I said, oh, I'd love to see it.

636
00:36:39,080 --> 00:36:42,480
So he told me there's a screwdriver in the kitchen drawer.

637
00:36:42,480 --> 00:36:44,040
Go get it.

638
00:36:44,040 --> 00:36:50,480
Go down to a hot water heater and take the top off and bring it up here to me.

639
00:36:50,480 --> 00:36:56,600
Calvin Parker says that Marcel told him he'd kept pieces of debris from the Roswell crash

640
00:36:56,600 --> 00:37:00,240
and hidden them inside a water heater in his home.

641
00:37:00,240 --> 00:37:01,720
I was fixing to unscrew it.

642
00:37:01,720 --> 00:37:02,800
I was going to look at these.

643
00:37:02,800 --> 00:37:05,000
So you actually touched it and put the screwdriver to it?

644
00:37:05,000 --> 00:37:06,800
Oh, I was ready to.

645
00:37:06,840 --> 00:37:08,720
When somebody showed up at the door.

646
00:37:08,720 --> 00:37:10,760
Oh, my gosh.

647
00:37:10,760 --> 00:37:12,880
I don't know who this was knocking at the door,

648
00:37:12,880 --> 00:37:16,960
but he didn't want to talk about it in front of me.

649
00:37:16,960 --> 00:37:18,680
So I didn't feel real welcome there.

650
00:37:18,680 --> 00:37:21,120
And I got up and left.

651
00:37:21,120 --> 00:37:25,280
I was planning on coming back the next day, but I had to go to work.

652
00:37:25,280 --> 00:37:28,240
I went offshore for 160 days.

653
00:37:28,240 --> 00:37:29,640
And I got back.

654
00:37:29,640 --> 00:37:34,200
And I couldn't wait to get back over to sea and get that debris.

655
00:37:34,200 --> 00:37:37,760
I went to the house and I found out he had passed away.

656
00:37:37,760 --> 00:37:40,760
It broke my heart.

657
00:37:40,760 --> 00:37:46,000
Did your father ever talk to you about the water heater, about hiding debris?

658
00:37:46,000 --> 00:37:49,840
No, this is literally the first time I've ever heard this story.

659
00:37:49,840 --> 00:37:54,800
If anything, I always was told that my grandfather didn't keep anything.

660
00:37:54,800 --> 00:37:57,960
Did he ever say why he had never brought it out earlier?

661
00:37:57,960 --> 00:38:01,120
That would have helped prove his story that he wasn't making it up.

662
00:38:01,120 --> 00:38:03,480
And it's like, hey, people, I really do have proof.

663
00:38:03,560 --> 00:38:08,360
So I'm wondering, I'm curious as to why he decided to show it to you at that point.

664
00:38:08,360 --> 00:38:11,200
Well, he was real loyal to his country.

665
00:38:11,200 --> 00:38:13,120
He was military.

666
00:38:13,120 --> 00:38:17,000
You follow orders when the military gives you orders.

667
00:38:17,000 --> 00:38:23,600
And I think there was a reluctance there against his conscience about coming out

668
00:38:23,600 --> 00:38:26,120
against the order that he had had.

669
00:38:26,120 --> 00:38:31,600
He told me that when he took this material, it was a real trip for him to keep it hidden.

670
00:38:31,600 --> 00:38:36,560
But he knew that he'd never get to see it again when they got to Roswell.

671
00:38:36,560 --> 00:38:44,760
So he, for lack of a better word, had to steal it from the cleanup effort.

672
00:38:44,760 --> 00:38:47,080
The man was on his deathbed.

673
00:38:47,080 --> 00:38:51,200
You could tell physically that he was having to take something.

674
00:38:51,200 --> 00:38:53,840
But mentally, he seemed to be intact.

675
00:38:53,840 --> 00:38:56,160
He seemed to be all there.

676
00:38:56,160 --> 00:38:59,200
He didn't want to die on his conscience.

677
00:39:02,040 --> 00:39:08,160
From a security standpoint, it makes sense that Jesse Sr. would anticipate continued

678
00:39:08,160 --> 00:39:09,520
scrutiny on his family.

679
00:39:09,520 --> 00:39:10,520
Yes.

680
00:39:10,520 --> 00:39:16,360
And that he might want to introduce somebody who believes, who we can identify with, but

681
00:39:16,360 --> 00:39:18,680
without that public presence.

682
00:39:18,680 --> 00:39:19,680
Right.

683
00:39:19,680 --> 00:39:21,280
Someone like Calvin.

684
00:39:21,280 --> 00:39:22,280
Right.

685
00:39:22,280 --> 00:39:30,000
There could be some debris left around.

686
00:39:30,000 --> 00:39:33,480
Probably right there in the house somewhere, but still there.

687
00:39:33,480 --> 00:39:35,720
So you think the debris could still be at the house?

688
00:39:35,720 --> 00:39:37,440
I know it could be.

689
00:39:37,440 --> 00:39:38,440
Huh.

690
00:39:38,440 --> 00:39:40,480
The house is just down the road from here.

691
00:39:40,480 --> 00:39:42,680
Yeah, there's no doubt in my mind.

692
00:39:42,680 --> 00:39:44,920
I've been to the debris field.

693
00:39:44,920 --> 00:39:46,760
I've been out there searching.

694
00:39:46,760 --> 00:39:48,200
And it's hard to find anything.

695
00:39:48,200 --> 00:39:52,080
But here actually is a fresh lead in the investigation that I haven't encountered yet.

696
00:39:52,080 --> 00:39:53,560
It could mean everything.

697
00:39:53,560 --> 00:39:59,720
This is probably the best chance we have of finding anything left of that crash site.

698
00:39:59,720 --> 00:40:00,720
Thank you for taking the time.

699
00:40:00,720 --> 00:40:01,720
This has been wonderful.

700
00:40:01,720 --> 00:40:02,720
Thank you.

701
00:40:02,720 --> 00:40:03,720
And it's been my pleasure.

702
00:40:03,720 --> 00:40:04,720
Thank you very much.

703
00:40:04,720 --> 00:40:05,720
Thank you.

704
00:40:05,720 --> 00:40:06,720
Thank you.

705
00:40:06,720 --> 00:40:17,720
Order of business number one is get to that home and see what we can find.

706
00:40:17,720 --> 00:40:22,080
The trickiest part about the debris field is that even if we find a piece of metal,

707
00:40:22,080 --> 00:40:23,960
we have no idea how it got there.

708
00:40:23,960 --> 00:40:27,800
So many people have been there over time, before and after.

709
00:40:27,800 --> 00:40:31,200
It could have arrived there in any number of ways.

710
00:40:31,200 --> 00:40:37,200
But if we find something hidden on the inside of a water heater, we know your grandfather

711
00:40:37,200 --> 00:40:38,200
put it there.

712
00:40:38,200 --> 00:40:39,200
Right.

713
00:40:39,200 --> 00:40:44,680
If they could find a piece of debris taken from the crash site, it would be an astounding

714
00:40:44,680 --> 00:40:49,640
development in the saga of Roswell.

715
00:40:49,640 --> 00:40:55,120
Smith and Denise Marcell will try to get inside Jesse Marcell's old house, which is only

716
00:40:55,120 --> 00:40:58,200
a short drive away.

717
00:40:58,200 --> 00:41:00,360
We're coming into this cold.

718
00:41:00,360 --> 00:41:01,760
The person doesn't know us.

719
00:41:01,760 --> 00:41:02,760
We don't know them.

720
00:41:02,760 --> 00:41:03,760
Right.

721
00:41:03,760 --> 00:41:05,280
We just have to be prepared for the gamut.

722
00:41:05,280 --> 00:41:06,280
I got you.

723
00:41:06,280 --> 00:41:07,280
Okay.

724
00:41:07,280 --> 00:41:10,280
Tea and cookies versus shotgun kind of thing.

725
00:41:10,280 --> 00:41:11,280
Okay.

726
00:41:11,280 --> 00:41:12,280
I have no idea.

727
00:41:12,280 --> 00:41:23,120
Let's not say that we're UFO researchers.

728
00:41:23,120 --> 00:41:24,120
Oh, yeah.

729
00:41:24,120 --> 00:41:25,120
No.

730
00:41:25,120 --> 00:41:26,520
We're researching local family history.

731
00:41:26,520 --> 00:41:27,520
Okay.

732
00:41:27,520 --> 00:41:28,520
You used to live in the house.

733
00:41:28,520 --> 00:41:29,520
Okay.

734
00:41:29,520 --> 00:41:30,520
Marcell family in particular.

735
00:41:30,520 --> 00:41:31,520
Right.

736
00:41:31,520 --> 00:41:34,000
And we can get into the UFO stuff later, once we feel comfortable, that's not going to

737
00:41:34,000 --> 00:41:35,000
put them off.

738
00:41:35,000 --> 00:41:39,600
That sounds like a really good idea.

739
00:41:39,600 --> 00:41:42,160
This is the part that makes me nervous, but also gets me excited.

740
00:41:42,160 --> 00:41:49,160
Yes, I know what you mean.

741
00:41:49,160 --> 00:41:52,160
Hello.

742
00:41:52,160 --> 00:41:57,920
Hi, how are you?

743
00:41:57,920 --> 00:41:58,920
Hi.

744
00:41:58,920 --> 00:42:00,160
Hey, I'm Ben.

745
00:42:00,160 --> 00:42:01,160
Matt.

746
00:42:01,160 --> 00:42:02,160
Matt, nice to meet you.

747
00:42:02,160 --> 00:42:03,160
Hi, I'm Denise.

748
00:42:03,160 --> 00:42:04,160
Who y'all used to live here?

749
00:42:04,160 --> 00:42:05,160
Denise used to live here.

750
00:42:05,160 --> 00:42:06,160
Well, her grandfather used to live here.

751
00:42:06,160 --> 00:42:07,160
My grandfather used to live here.

752
00:42:07,160 --> 00:42:08,160
Nice to meet you.

753
00:42:08,160 --> 00:42:09,160
Nice to meet you.

754
00:42:09,160 --> 00:42:10,160
Hi, I'm Denise.

755
00:42:10,160 --> 00:42:11,160
My grandfather used to live here.

756
00:42:11,160 --> 00:42:17,160
Would you mind if she walked me through a little bit of the property to show me where things

757
00:42:17,160 --> 00:42:20,720
were?

758
00:42:20,720 --> 00:42:23,640
The owner is reluctant to let them enter.

759
00:42:23,640 --> 00:42:36,680
And so for now, it's impossible to verify Parker's claim.

760
00:42:36,680 --> 00:42:43,200
I am in southern New Mexico on my way to the home of a guy named Chuck Wade.

761
00:42:43,200 --> 00:42:50,480
Now, Chuck Wade claims to have a piece of debris recovered from a potential UFO crash site.

762
00:42:50,480 --> 00:42:54,960
Ben Smith couldn't get access to Jesse Marcel's former house to verify whether it contained

763
00:42:54,960 --> 00:42:57,360
Roswell crash debris.

764
00:42:57,360 --> 00:43:01,560
Now Smith is following up another leaf and meeting with a man named Chuck Wade.

765
00:43:01,560 --> 00:43:22,160
Who is convinced he has UFO debris from a spacecraft that crashed in 1947.

766
00:43:22,160 --> 00:43:25,480
Did your dad have a relationship with Mack before that July?

767
00:43:25,480 --> 00:43:26,480
Oh, yeah.

768
00:43:26,480 --> 00:43:30,280
If you're the guy that owns the bar, everybody knows you.

769
00:43:30,280 --> 00:43:31,280
Yeah.

770
00:43:32,000 --> 00:43:35,720
I've had owned that bar for many, many years.

771
00:43:35,720 --> 00:43:39,520
And I just love to be there and listen to stories.

772
00:43:39,520 --> 00:43:46,240
I was seven years old the year that the Roswell incident happened there next to Corona.

773
00:43:46,240 --> 00:43:52,000
Chuck Wade's father, Jesse Wade, owned the bar in Corona where rancher Mack Brazel first

774
00:43:52,000 --> 00:43:57,040
came to show his neighbors the strange debris he'd found while herding sheep.

775
00:43:57,280 --> 00:44:02,080
Although it is known as the Roswell incident, the small farming community of Corona was

776
00:44:02,080 --> 00:44:06,280
the closest to where Mack found the debris.

777
00:44:06,280 --> 00:44:11,720
Mack Brazel found something that he didn't know and recognized at all on the foster

778
00:44:11,720 --> 00:44:12,720
ranch.

779
00:44:12,720 --> 00:44:18,400
So he came to Corona and asked my father to go out and see what the world it was because

780
00:44:18,400 --> 00:44:21,480
he, Mack did it for it, didn't know.

781
00:44:21,480 --> 00:44:28,680
My dad was busy and there's just himself in the bar, so that chose not to close the bar.

782
00:44:28,680 --> 00:44:31,040
My dad regretted that.

783
00:44:31,040 --> 00:44:33,960
I'm going to say immensely.

784
00:44:33,960 --> 00:44:38,680
He always said, I wish that went with Mack's C-Wars out there.

785
00:44:38,680 --> 00:44:40,680
Right.

786
00:44:40,680 --> 00:44:44,680
Chuck Wade also wanted to see what was out there.

787
00:44:44,680 --> 00:44:49,960
After running his own construction company, Wade has devoted most of the last 20 years

788
00:44:50,040 --> 00:44:54,840
to researching UFOs.

789
00:44:54,840 --> 00:45:00,480
So tell me a little bit about some of the sites and debris that you recovered.

790
00:45:00,480 --> 00:45:04,640
I think it could inform my investigation of Roswell.

791
00:45:04,640 --> 00:45:08,680
Have you all studied the crash on the plane to San Augustine?

792
00:45:08,680 --> 00:45:09,880
No.

793
00:45:09,880 --> 00:45:12,640
Wade has come to a startling conclusion.

794
00:45:12,640 --> 00:45:19,440
Roswell was only one of a series of UFO crashes that took place in southern New Mexico during

795
00:45:19,520 --> 00:45:20,680
that time.

796
00:45:20,680 --> 00:45:25,280
According to Wade, there were seven UFO crashes in total.

797
00:45:25,280 --> 00:45:29,840
Five of them occurred during the first week of July 1947.

798
00:45:29,840 --> 00:45:34,680
The first of them here was August 1945.

799
00:45:34,680 --> 00:45:40,000
This was not here the night of the first or the second of July 1947.

800
00:45:40,000 --> 00:45:48,080
These three, four, five and six, was about 11 o'clock on July the 4th of 1947.

801
00:45:48,080 --> 00:45:52,240
And this one up here was in March 1948.

802
00:45:52,240 --> 00:45:56,560
Chuck Wade has a theory about what caused the space ships to crash.

803
00:45:56,560 --> 00:46:03,400
What happened, folks, is whenever they put in Los Alamos National Laboratory, they installed

804
00:46:03,400 --> 00:46:09,560
three major high-powered radars that guard the skies over Los Alamos.

805
00:46:09,560 --> 00:46:15,640
Wade, who supervised construction of dozens of air traffic control towers across the U.S.,

806
00:46:15,680 --> 00:46:21,960
believes powerful radar signals emitted from the Los Alamos nuclear site caused short circuits

807
00:46:21,960 --> 00:46:23,560
in the space ships.

808
00:46:23,560 --> 00:46:31,880
They electrified that craft and it came down in flames.

809
00:46:31,880 --> 00:46:37,320
Of what he claims are seven UFO crashes, Wade became obsessed with one in particular, which

810
00:46:37,320 --> 00:46:44,320
he believes crashed on the planes of St. Augustine 48 hours before the Roswell crash.

811
00:46:44,320 --> 00:46:46,480
New Mexico is basically square.

812
00:46:46,480 --> 00:46:50,760
Corona is basically really close to the center of the state.

813
00:46:50,760 --> 00:46:56,920
What we call the Roswell incident happened about 30 miles southeast of Corona.

814
00:46:56,920 --> 00:47:04,360
The planes of St. Augustine is over here, about 200 miles.

815
00:47:04,360 --> 00:47:07,200
Chuck started going to UFO conferences.

816
00:47:07,200 --> 00:47:12,600
One of the speakers had discovered some pieces of debris and he wanted to go look for more

817
00:47:12,600 --> 00:47:14,160
debris.

818
00:47:14,160 --> 00:47:16,160
Chuck said, well, he would help him with that.

819
00:47:16,160 --> 00:47:19,800
He'd get some guys to come and help dig.

820
00:47:19,800 --> 00:47:22,360
So they did.

821
00:47:22,360 --> 00:47:24,560
That was in 2004.

822
00:47:24,560 --> 00:47:28,600
And when they found some stuff.

823
00:47:28,600 --> 00:47:30,440
I'd love to see it if I can.

824
00:47:30,440 --> 00:47:34,440
Well, I think it's right around the corner here.

825
00:47:34,440 --> 00:47:43,320
The wades have several fragments.

826
00:47:43,320 --> 00:47:46,280
Can you tell me what I'm looking at here?

827
00:47:46,280 --> 00:47:50,520
These here is the foils.

828
00:47:50,520 --> 00:47:55,360
And then these here have got, whenever they hit it, squished, but all these are holes.

829
00:47:55,360 --> 00:47:58,360
Can I actually, can I remove the glass for a closer look?

830
00:47:58,360 --> 00:48:00,000
Sure, be glad to.

831
00:48:00,000 --> 00:48:01,600
Did you take this to the government at all?

832
00:48:01,600 --> 00:48:04,160
I don't have any reason to do that.

833
00:48:04,160 --> 00:48:06,160
Well, just curious, you know.

834
00:48:06,160 --> 00:48:07,160
No, I'm sure.

835
00:48:07,160 --> 00:48:10,760
So if you find a UFO, I don't know what the government would say to be honest, but.

836
00:48:10,760 --> 00:48:13,280
I believe they said they didn't exist.

837
00:48:13,280 --> 00:48:14,240
That's true.

838
00:48:14,240 --> 00:48:18,160
The official position is, they don't exist, but things have started to change.

839
00:48:18,160 --> 00:48:25,040
It's a good question, but no, I would avoid the government as best I possibly could.

840
00:48:25,040 --> 00:48:31,120
There is a huge monstrous, gigantic cover up on the Roswell incident.

841
00:48:31,120 --> 00:48:34,160
No one in Corona was allowed.

842
00:48:34,160 --> 00:48:37,800
They were ordered not to talk about that crash.

843
00:48:38,800 --> 00:48:46,000
Yeah, there's a lot of mistrust in the community and among UFO researchers or the federal government.

844
00:48:46,000 --> 00:48:53,040
I think a lot of it stems from the reaction or overreaction in 1947.

845
00:48:53,040 --> 00:48:55,280
They found something on the Foster Ranch.

846
00:48:55,280 --> 00:48:58,480
They didn't know what it was or where it came from.

847
00:48:58,480 --> 00:49:01,880
I think Jesse Marcel is telling the truth 100%.

848
00:49:01,880 --> 00:49:06,200
I see no reason for him to do other than tell the truth.

849
00:49:06,200 --> 00:49:12,200
The Roswell incident was from outer space and there's not a chance of the damn bulletin that we made.

850
00:49:13,560 --> 00:49:16,600
This one's pretty fascinating.

851
00:49:19,560 --> 00:49:23,200
Can I take a piece with me to get it analyzed myself?

852
00:49:23,200 --> 00:49:24,520
What do you think?

853
00:49:26,400 --> 00:49:27,960
I'm so curious, me.

854
00:49:27,960 --> 00:49:29,440
You mind if I take this one here?

855
00:49:29,440 --> 00:49:30,240
Oh, sure.

856
00:49:30,240 --> 00:49:31,560
Sure, we'd be glad to.

857
00:49:31,560 --> 00:49:32,480
Well, whatever.

858
00:49:32,480 --> 00:49:35,320
Any of them that you want, we'll be glad to take the piece off.

859
00:49:36,520 --> 00:49:38,160
I don't know where it came from.

860
00:49:38,160 --> 00:49:39,320
Why is it here?

861
00:49:39,320 --> 00:49:41,040
Why don't they tell us about it?

862
00:49:46,200 --> 00:49:48,960
That is pretty hard to cut, actually.

863
00:49:48,960 --> 00:49:57,200
Smith plans to get this piece of metal tested to see what elements it's composed of and if there is anything about it that can suggest where it came from.

864
00:49:57,200 --> 00:50:12,200
I'm just outside Denver, Colorado on my way to meet David Sussi, our crash site expert.

865
00:50:12,200 --> 00:50:18,200
David Sussi is a former accident inspector for the Federal Aviation Administration.

866
00:50:18,200 --> 00:50:21,200
Sussi has investigated hundreds of crash sites.

867
00:50:21,200 --> 00:50:32,200
So when Ben Smith took him to the debris field, where Jesse Marcel first saw what he believed to be pieces of wrecked spacecraft, Sussi started by measuring wind currents.

868
00:50:33,200 --> 00:50:38,200
Sussi's gut reaction, whatever crashed here wasn't lightweight.

869
00:50:38,200 --> 00:50:47,200
This contradicts the U.S. military's story that what crashed at Roswell was a weather balloon or part of the top secret lighter-than-air project mogul.

870
00:50:47,200 --> 00:50:51,200
I'm not sure I buy that whole balloon-grag theory.

871
00:50:51,200 --> 00:50:53,200
Really?

872
00:50:53,200 --> 00:50:57,200
David collected all kinds of data from the debris field.

873
00:50:57,200 --> 00:51:01,200
Wind, geographic features, weather.

874
00:51:01,200 --> 00:51:06,200
I'm hoping that he can eliminate one aircraft or another.

875
00:51:06,200 --> 00:51:22,200
Smith wants David Sussi to compare his initial finding with the deep-earth analysis done by Canadian geophysicists Colin Miaska and Eric Johnson when they visited the debris field late last year.

876
00:51:22,200 --> 00:51:25,200
Sussi has been communicating with them online.

877
00:51:25,200 --> 00:51:28,200
I understand you did ground penetrating radar as well?

878
00:51:28,200 --> 00:51:29,200
Yeah.

879
00:51:29,200 --> 00:51:30,200
Okay.

880
00:51:30,200 --> 00:51:37,200
The geophysicists used ground penetrating radar and gamma ray technology to identify strange anomalies in the Earth.

881
00:51:37,200 --> 00:51:38,200
Look at that.

882
00:51:38,200 --> 00:51:41,200
Wow, that is interesting.

883
00:51:41,200 --> 00:51:45,200
A kind of scarring that couldn't have come from a deflated balloon crash.

884
00:51:45,200 --> 00:51:47,200
This is the radar.

885
00:51:47,200 --> 00:51:52,200
It doesn't make sense. I can't understand what that would be.

886
00:52:00,200 --> 00:52:11,200
Hey, Ben.

887
00:52:11,200 --> 00:52:12,200
Hey, David.

888
00:52:12,200 --> 00:52:13,200
How are you doing?

889
00:52:13,200 --> 00:52:14,200
Good, how are you?

890
00:52:14,200 --> 00:52:15,200
Yeah, well, come on in.

891
00:52:15,200 --> 00:52:18,200
Oh, man, I've been dying to see what you've done with that data.

892
00:52:18,200 --> 00:52:22,200
Well, there's a lot to look at. Probably more than you want to see.

893
00:52:22,200 --> 00:52:28,200
The first thing I want to start with, this is an overview of the entire site, the entire area.

894
00:52:28,200 --> 00:52:34,200
That is the reportage trajectory. That's where they found the debris.

895
00:52:34,200 --> 00:52:35,200
Yeah.

896
00:52:35,200 --> 00:52:40,200
And then from there, it spread, they set it as much as a mile in this direction off of that.

897
00:52:40,200 --> 00:52:44,200
A bunch of other interesting stuff that we can get through.

898
00:52:44,200 --> 00:52:46,200
And now this is what's really interesting.

899
00:52:46,200 --> 00:52:49,200
This area really intrigues me right down at the bottom here,

900
00:52:49,200 --> 00:52:56,200
because the gamma readings are not consistent with the ground penetrating radar.

901
00:52:56,200 --> 00:52:57,200
I've never seen that before.

902
00:52:57,200 --> 00:52:58,200
Huh.

903
00:52:58,200 --> 00:52:59,200
It doesn't make sense to me.

904
00:52:59,200 --> 00:53:01,200
You might have to walk me through the actual readings.

905
00:53:01,200 --> 00:53:02,200
All right.

906
00:53:02,200 --> 00:53:03,200
Because I'm having a hard time visualizing.

907
00:53:03,200 --> 00:53:04,200
Let's do that.

908
00:53:04,200 --> 00:53:08,200
These red areas indicate that the ground penetrating radar says it's extremely dense,

909
00:53:08,200 --> 00:53:09,200
which is where the rocks are.

910
00:53:09,200 --> 00:53:10,200
Yeah.

911
00:53:10,200 --> 00:53:11,200
And that sort of thing.

912
00:53:11,200 --> 00:53:14,200
Here's an example of a dense area.

913
00:53:14,200 --> 00:53:19,200
And in this dense area, you would expect to see low gamma rays,

914
00:53:19,200 --> 00:53:22,200
because it's not coming through. It's blocking the gamma.

915
00:53:22,200 --> 00:53:24,200
So let's look at that spot here.

916
00:53:24,200 --> 00:53:26,200
Gamma rays are indicated by yellow or green.

917
00:53:26,200 --> 00:53:28,200
If there's less gamma, it's blue.

918
00:53:28,200 --> 00:53:31,200
And sure enough, here's this light blue where the rocks were.

919
00:53:31,200 --> 00:53:32,200
Yeah.

920
00:53:32,200 --> 00:53:33,200
And then here's the same thing here.

921
00:53:33,200 --> 00:53:35,200
It almost matches perfectly with the GPR.

922
00:53:35,200 --> 00:53:36,200
Yes.

923
00:53:36,200 --> 00:53:38,200
You could look at any of these spots, any of these blues here.

924
00:53:38,200 --> 00:53:39,200
Yeah.

925
00:53:39,200 --> 00:53:40,200
And it aligns with these reds here.

926
00:53:40,200 --> 00:53:42,200
Got it.

927
00:53:42,200 --> 00:53:45,200
This spot.

928
00:53:45,200 --> 00:53:48,200
Now that we're just a little above the green line,

929
00:53:48,200 --> 00:53:50,200
we were looking here before, below the green line.

930
00:53:50,200 --> 00:53:52,200
But now above there, that's red.

931
00:53:52,200 --> 00:53:53,200
Let's take a close look at it.

932
00:53:53,200 --> 00:53:55,200
See all the red?

933
00:53:55,200 --> 00:53:56,200
All the red?

934
00:53:56,200 --> 00:53:58,200
It's dense. It's hard. It's solid.

935
00:53:58,200 --> 00:53:59,200
Which would block gamma.

936
00:53:59,200 --> 00:54:00,200
Uh-huh.

937
00:54:00,200 --> 00:54:01,200
So now I'm going to flip this.

938
00:54:01,200 --> 00:54:04,200
I'm going to think, well, we're going to find a blue spot there.

939
00:54:04,200 --> 00:54:07,200
But instead, look what we find.

940
00:54:07,200 --> 00:54:09,200
The opposite of what I would expect.

941
00:54:09,200 --> 00:54:10,200
Right.

942
00:54:10,200 --> 00:54:12,200
And not only what I would expect, but what we witnessed right here.

943
00:54:12,200 --> 00:54:16,200
That was consistent with tight compaction and blocking the gammas.

944
00:54:16,200 --> 00:54:19,200
But now it's yellow.

945
00:54:19,200 --> 00:54:27,200
Not only is it high, it is the highest right there.

946
00:54:27,200 --> 00:54:30,200
It's something that it doesn't make sense to me.

947
00:54:30,200 --> 00:54:32,200
Have you ever seen that in a wreck?

948
00:54:32,200 --> 00:54:35,200
No. No, I have not. I've not seen this before.

949
00:54:35,200 --> 00:54:36,200
There's something there.

950
00:54:36,200 --> 00:54:39,200
There's something unique about this spot above the green line.

951
00:54:39,200 --> 00:54:42,200
As an accident investigator and what I've been doing my entire life,

952
00:54:42,200 --> 00:54:44,200
there's something under the ground there.

953
00:54:44,200 --> 00:54:47,200
There's something making these changes, these readings different.

954
00:54:47,200 --> 00:54:51,200
So what could make that kind of contrast,

955
00:54:51,200 --> 00:54:53,200
a high density with high radiation?

956
00:54:53,200 --> 00:54:56,200
The only thing I can think of is that in ground penetrating radar,

957
00:54:56,200 --> 00:55:04,200
a thick rubber or polyethylene and rubber can create that illusion of high density.

958
00:55:04,200 --> 00:55:07,200
But it would also allow gamma to come up through it,

959
00:55:07,200 --> 00:55:10,200
because it's not going to block the gamma rays.

960
00:55:10,200 --> 00:55:12,200
After analyzing the data,

961
00:55:12,200 --> 00:55:17,200
David Sussi can no longer rule out the possibility that it was a mogul balloon

962
00:55:17,200 --> 00:55:19,200
that went down at Roswell.

963
00:55:19,200 --> 00:55:22,200
So, I mean, a mogul balloon was made of something like neoprene?

964
00:55:22,200 --> 00:55:25,200
Exactly. So, to me, that explains it.

965
00:55:25,200 --> 00:55:28,200
To me, that is what I would be looking for.

966
00:55:28,200 --> 00:55:31,200
That's the assumption I would make and go out and try to find that.

967
00:55:31,200 --> 00:55:36,200
Sussi admits that his analysis is just an educated guess.

968
00:55:36,200 --> 00:55:40,200
And even that is based on a 1995 government report,

969
00:55:40,200 --> 00:55:43,200
which provided no physical evidence,

970
00:55:43,200 --> 00:55:48,200
but asserted that a mogul balloon crashed at Roswell.

971
00:55:48,200 --> 00:55:52,200
A report millions of Americans still don't believe.

972
00:55:52,200 --> 00:55:58,200
If this group of 100 demonstrators is correct,

973
00:55:58,200 --> 00:56:02,200
the U.S. government is covering up the most important secret of all time,

974
00:56:02,200 --> 00:56:07,200
alien beings who have made contact with earthlings.

975
00:56:07,200 --> 00:56:10,200
They said, well, what about the bodies?

976
00:56:10,200 --> 00:56:12,200
How could so many people have come forward and say,

977
00:56:12,200 --> 00:56:16,200
well, I was a kid, I saw this, and I saw these bodies, and I saw this stuff.

978
00:56:16,200 --> 00:56:19,200
Some Air Force guys came out and picked up stuff in the desert.

979
00:56:19,200 --> 00:56:22,200
How do we explain that?

980
00:56:22,200 --> 00:56:25,200
At that infamous 1997 press conference,

981
00:56:25,200 --> 00:56:30,200
where the Air Force doubled down on its claim that what crashed at Roswell was a mogul balloon,

982
00:56:30,200 --> 00:56:34,200
it also issued a remarkable second report that some believe

983
00:56:34,200 --> 00:56:38,200
or undermine its entire explanation.

984
00:56:38,200 --> 00:56:42,200
We're confident once the report is out and digested by the public

985
00:56:42,200 --> 00:56:47,200
that this will be the final word on the Roswell incident.

986
00:56:47,200 --> 00:56:52,200
This second report offered what the Air Force hoped was a logical explanation

987
00:56:52,200 --> 00:56:57,200
to appease those Americans who found alleged eyewitness stories about aliens at Roswell,

988
00:56:57,200 --> 00:57:00,200
both believable and compelling.

989
00:57:00,200 --> 00:57:05,200
Bodies observed in the New Mexico desert were probably test dummies

990
00:57:05,200 --> 00:57:12,200
that were carried aloft by U.S. Air Force high altitude balloons for scientific research.

991
00:57:12,200 --> 00:57:18,200
Additional research uncovered information which explains some of the claims of alien bodies

992
00:57:18,200 --> 00:57:21,200
associated with the Roswell incident.

993
00:57:21,200 --> 00:57:29,200
The second report, called Case Solved, was accompanied by a short film produced by the Air Force.

994
00:57:29,200 --> 00:57:35,200
The project's main objective was to study methods for returning a pilot or astronaut

995
00:57:35,200 --> 00:57:41,200
safely to Earth by parachute if forced to eject at extremely high altitudes.

996
00:57:41,200 --> 00:57:50,200
For these tests, dummies were transported up to 98,000 feet by high altitude balloons.

997
00:57:50,200 --> 00:57:55,200
The Air Force contended that anyone who thought they'd seen the military recovering alien bodies

998
00:57:55,200 --> 00:58:00,200
were actually witnessing exercises that involved dropping anthropomorphic dummies

999
00:58:00,200 --> 00:58:03,200
from high altitude balloons.

1000
00:58:03,200 --> 00:58:08,200
Many of the dummies landed outside the confines of military reservations

1001
00:58:08,200 --> 00:58:12,200
and were regularly observed by local civilians.

1002
00:58:12,200 --> 00:58:18,200
Critical examination of alleged alien sightings consistently matched the physical characteristics

1003
00:58:18,200 --> 00:58:24,200
of these dummies as well as where and how they were used.

1004
00:58:24,200 --> 00:58:31,200
I think it's logical to assume that the people there saw Air Force ambulances come out,

1005
00:58:31,200 --> 00:58:36,200
they saw gurneys come out, they saw body bags come out because the dummies were put into body bags

1006
00:58:36,200 --> 00:58:39,200
to protect them and when you put all that stuff together and spin it,

1007
00:58:39,200 --> 00:58:45,200
you find that it fits perfectly with many of the occurrences in Roswell during that era.

1008
00:58:46,200 --> 00:58:55,200
At the press conference, the problem with the Air Force's explanation was obvious to reporters.

1009
00:58:55,200 --> 00:59:02,200
Its dummy drop exercises didn't take place in 1947, they only started in the early 1950s.

1010
00:59:02,200 --> 00:59:09,200
They're talking about 1947, you're talking about dummies used in the 50s almost a decade later.

1011
00:59:09,200 --> 00:59:14,200
Well, I'm afraid that's the problem that we have with time compression.

1012
00:59:14,200 --> 00:59:20,200
I don't know what they saw in 47 but I'm quite sure it probably was Project Mogul.

1013
00:59:20,200 --> 00:59:25,200
UFO author and researcher Don Schmidt believes the Air Force was disrespectful,

1014
00:59:25,200 --> 00:59:30,200
writing off alleged eyewitnesses as having aging and faulty memories.

1015
00:59:30,200 --> 00:59:33,200
Oh, it's time compression.

1016
00:59:33,200 --> 00:59:39,200
Numerality, not even in the medical books, created by the Pentagon.

1017
00:59:39,200 --> 00:59:44,200
The older you get, you start to not only compress the years but also the decades.

1018
00:59:44,200 --> 00:59:52,200
The problem with that, all the personnel who were here in 47 who were involved were no longer here in 52.

1019
00:59:52,200 --> 00:59:57,200
So how could they be mistaking wooden crash dummies in 52? They weren't even here.

1020
00:59:57,200 --> 01:00:03,200
Colonel, let me just go back one more time, you say this is case closed and people should not believe it,

1021
01:00:03,200 --> 01:00:07,200
but with the major hole though, you're saying they're wrong about the date.

1022
01:00:07,200 --> 01:00:13,200
What explanation can you give them other than just saying, well, we just think they're just mistaken by six years?

1023
01:00:13,200 --> 01:00:17,200
Well, I have no other explanation. I'm sorry. I have no other explanation.

1024
01:00:17,200 --> 01:00:23,200
I'm looking at the facts as we have studied them and I have no other explanation of that but what I've already given.

1025
01:00:23,200 --> 01:00:25,200
But how would you think if case closed?

1026
01:00:25,200 --> 01:00:31,200
Because we've reviewed all the relevant information and we have finished this and we're not going to revisit it.

1027
01:00:31,200 --> 01:00:35,200
How do you know that you're not being used? How do you know that you know the full story?

1028
01:00:36,200 --> 01:00:41,200
Are you confident that you're not part of any cover-up, willingly or unwittingly?

1029
01:00:41,200 --> 01:00:46,200
I'm totally confident, but I think Colonel Weaver, you might have seen him on TV earlier, said it best.

1030
01:00:46,200 --> 01:00:51,200
We can't even keep single secrets. How could we have a conspiracy or a cover-up?

1031
01:00:51,200 --> 01:00:59,200
Well, that happened in 1953. How could anybody mess that up from 1947? People's memories fade over time.

1032
01:00:59,200 --> 01:01:04,200
We think that this answers lots of questions and it answers them logically and with integrity.

1033
01:01:04,200 --> 01:01:17,200
I'm excited to hear about your findings.

1034
01:01:17,200 --> 01:01:25,200
So there are two styles of uppercase W's that I noticed in the journal.

1035
01:01:25,200 --> 01:01:35,200
Ben Smith is with forensic handwriting expert Jennifer Nassow, who has been analyzing writing samples from some of the officers in the 509th Bomber Group.

1036
01:01:35,200 --> 01:01:42,200
She is checking to see if they could have written the puzzling journal that belonged to their colleague Jesse Marcel.

1037
01:01:42,200 --> 01:01:52,200
Colonel William Blanchard, commander of the Roswell Air Base, would certainly have known about any top-secret operation in his sector.

1038
01:01:53,200 --> 01:02:02,200
When we look at the Blanchard, there are some dissimilarities, but it's really not a whole lot to go on.

1039
01:02:02,200 --> 01:02:08,200
So your professional judgment would be there's not enough data yet to confirm one way or the other?

1040
01:02:08,200 --> 01:02:15,200
Right. There would be no conclusion as to whether or not he authored the journal based on just the one signature that we have.

1041
01:02:15,200 --> 01:02:22,200
So in the Walter Haught handwriting, I noticed that it's what we call a combination style of writing.

1042
01:02:22,200 --> 01:02:33,200
Lieutenant Walter Houtt was the public information officer for the 509th who was ordered by Colonel Blanchard to draft that famous press release that a flying disc had been recovered.

1043
01:02:33,200 --> 01:02:40,200
Where it's not all cursive, it's not all hand printing, so some letters have connecting strokes while others do not.

1044
01:02:40,200 --> 01:02:46,200
And right away that's the difference between what I see in the all cursive writing of the journal.

1045
01:02:46,200 --> 01:02:58,200
So here's the word and in the journal. See the formation of the A, how it starts up around two o'clock, and then comes counterclockwise and forms this other loop.

1046
01:02:58,200 --> 01:03:03,200
When we look at the and in the Walter Haught handwriting.

1047
01:03:03,200 --> 01:03:05,200
Oh, totally different.

1048
01:03:05,200 --> 01:03:11,200
So already I get the sense that this journal was not written by Walter Haught.

1049
01:03:11,200 --> 01:03:18,200
The characteristics that I'm noting thus far are not similar to what I'm seeing in the journal.

1050
01:03:18,200 --> 01:03:19,200
Yeah.

1051
01:03:19,200 --> 01:03:23,200
The next sample would be Robert Scherke.

1052
01:03:23,200 --> 01:03:24,200
Yep.

1053
01:03:24,200 --> 01:03:28,200
Lieutenant Robert Scherke was assistant operations officer for the 509th.

1054
01:03:28,200 --> 01:03:38,200
He also said Jesse Marcel was telling the truth and claimed he'd seen debris flown out of Roswell and believed it was extraterrestrial.

1055
01:03:38,200 --> 01:03:47,200
So here we have the word July in the journal and just note the formation of the uppercase J.

1056
01:03:47,200 --> 01:03:56,200
Here in the word July, look at the formation of the J compared to the known writing and the question.

1057
01:03:56,200 --> 01:04:05,200
So already again, I see enough deliberate contrast and strokes that they start to pop as different handwriting styles.

1058
01:04:05,200 --> 01:04:09,200
And what we're looking for is a pattern of writing.

1059
01:04:09,200 --> 01:04:17,200
Edwin Easley creates this drag stroke being it's a long exaggerated drag stroke.

1060
01:04:17,200 --> 01:04:21,200
Major Edwin Easley was in charge of base security.

1061
01:04:21,200 --> 01:04:29,200
He would have been responsible for safeguarding the debris and controlling which personnel had access to it.

1062
01:04:29,200 --> 01:04:30,200
And you see that again.

1063
01:04:30,200 --> 01:04:33,200
You see that repeated throughout the known writing.

1064
01:04:33,200 --> 01:04:38,200
Whereas in the journal, you just have the I dot above the letter.

1065
01:04:38,200 --> 01:04:43,200
So you do have some dissimilarities in this writing sample as well.

1066
01:04:43,200 --> 01:04:44,200
Shoot.

1067
01:04:44,200 --> 01:04:47,200
Well, that leaves us Patrick Saunders.

1068
01:04:47,200 --> 01:04:52,200
Patrick Saunders was Colonel Blanchard's number two, his top deputy.

1069
01:04:52,200 --> 01:04:59,200
He would have been in the room when Jesse Marcel returned from the debris field to brief the commander.

1070
01:04:59,200 --> 01:05:03,200
There are some words and letter combinations I do see in agreement.

1071
01:05:03,200 --> 01:05:07,200
So one of the words in common between the question and the known is the word anything.

1072
01:05:07,200 --> 01:05:15,200
And if you look at the writing in the journal, there is a pen lift after the Y in between the Y and the T.

1073
01:05:15,200 --> 01:05:17,200
And you see that again here.

1074
01:05:17,200 --> 01:05:18,200
Right.

1075
01:05:18,200 --> 01:05:19,200
The Y terminates.

1076
01:05:19,200 --> 01:05:20,200
Pretty distinct.

1077
01:05:20,200 --> 01:05:23,200
And the same thing here.

1078
01:05:23,200 --> 01:05:30,200
And in the known writing, you do see that combination as well where that pen lifts between the Y and the T.

1079
01:05:30,200 --> 01:05:38,200
I would describe that as more of a general characteristic, but right now it is a similarity.

1080
01:05:38,200 --> 01:05:48,200
Also, when you look at the letter formations, the termination of the Y in all three anythings in the journal terminates downward.

1081
01:05:48,200 --> 01:05:50,200
There is no upward loop formation.

1082
01:05:50,200 --> 01:05:51,200
Yeah.

1083
01:05:51,200 --> 01:05:53,200
It terminates downward.

1084
01:05:53,200 --> 01:06:00,200
If you look at the height ratios between the T and the H, here you see the H is much taller than the T.

1085
01:06:00,200 --> 01:06:02,200
You see that throughout the questions.

1086
01:06:02,200 --> 01:06:04,200
The H and the T.

1087
01:06:04,200 --> 01:06:10,200
And you also see that the H in the knowns is also taller than the T.

1088
01:06:10,200 --> 01:06:17,200
So do you see enough then to exclude this as a candidate or is it still a viable option?

1089
01:06:17,200 --> 01:06:26,200
I don't see enough right now to exclude this person as a candidate of all the samples with the Pat Saunders one.

1090
01:06:26,200 --> 01:06:28,200
There's potential.

1091
01:06:28,200 --> 01:06:39,200
This man is at the nexus of all the secrets because Patrick Saunders would have touched every document, overheard every phone call, would have seen everything Colonel Blanchard seen.

1092
01:06:39,200 --> 01:06:44,200
And if he is the author of the journal, then I really think we're onto something.

1093
01:06:49,200 --> 01:06:53,200
He was the base commander's number two, his right hand man.

1094
01:06:53,200 --> 01:06:56,200
But who is Patrick Saunders?

1095
01:06:56,200 --> 01:06:58,200
What was his role in the Roswell incident?

1096
01:06:58,200 --> 01:07:00,200
What did he believe?

1097
01:07:00,200 --> 01:07:08,200
And if he wrote the journal, Jesse Marcel kept close for decades, what secrets did the two men share?

1098
01:07:08,200 --> 01:07:14,200
Investigator Ben Smith has tracked down two of Saunders five children.

1099
01:07:14,200 --> 01:07:18,200
So you were three years old in 1947 and you were living in Roswell at the time?

1100
01:07:18,200 --> 01:07:22,200
Yes, we were living in Roswell on base.

1101
01:07:22,200 --> 01:07:23,200
On base?

1102
01:07:23,200 --> 01:07:24,200
Yes.

1103
01:07:24,200 --> 01:07:29,200
We lived there until about 1950.

1104
01:07:29,200 --> 01:07:33,200
And can you tell me a little bit about your father?

1105
01:07:33,200 --> 01:07:37,200
Well, my dad was a very proud officer.

1106
01:07:37,200 --> 01:07:40,200
He was a very personable man.

1107
01:07:40,200 --> 01:07:46,200
And while he could be serious, he could also be lots of fun to be with.

1108
01:07:46,200 --> 01:07:51,200
Can you tell me a little bit about his role at the Roswell Army Air Force Base?

1109
01:07:51,200 --> 01:08:00,200
He was in charge of assigning the troops to the cleanup effort at the crash site.

1110
01:08:00,200 --> 01:08:07,200
He was involved in the first meeting they had after the crash with Colonel Blanchard.

1111
01:08:07,200 --> 01:08:17,200
And what was your reaction when you first found out about your dad's role at the Roswell Army Air Force Base at this time?

1112
01:08:17,200 --> 01:08:21,200
You know, I wasn't even born when it happened.

1113
01:08:21,200 --> 01:08:27,200
Years later, I hear my sisters asking him questions and things like that.

1114
01:08:27,200 --> 01:08:36,200
But I just thought everybody's dad was cool like that.

1115
01:08:36,200 --> 01:08:44,200
Do you know if he ever saw or handled the debris or any intelligence reports about descriptions of the debris?

1116
01:08:44,200 --> 01:08:48,200
He said he knew it wasn't a weather balloon.

1117
01:08:48,200 --> 01:08:52,200
So your father said it was definitely not a weather balloon?

1118
01:08:52,200 --> 01:08:57,200
Absolutely. That's one of the things I remember him telling me more than once.

1119
01:08:57,200 --> 01:09:03,200
And that he knew about weather balloons because he dealt with them with spying over Russia.

1120
01:09:03,200 --> 01:09:09,200
He did tell me that the debris helped to develop the stealth jet fighter.

1121
01:09:09,200 --> 01:09:15,200
And that there was a similarity between the jet fighter and the thing that crashed at Roswell.

1122
01:09:15,200 --> 01:09:20,200
That is fascinating.

1123
01:09:20,200 --> 01:09:28,200
Patrick Saunders' daughter says her father gave her a well-known book about the Roswell incident and wrote comments in the margins.

1124
01:09:28,200 --> 01:09:36,200
He wrote down page numbers and then he highlighted sentences that he thought were very important.

1125
01:09:36,200 --> 01:09:43,200
On page 142, he highlighted Patrick Saunders was a major and assigned as the base agitant.

1126
01:09:43,200 --> 01:09:50,200
His job would have required him to accomplish paperwork surrounding the assigning of the troops to clean up the debris.

1127
01:09:50,200 --> 01:09:53,200
Did he ever share any names about who might have cleaned it up?

1128
01:09:53,200 --> 01:10:03,200
No, he just mentioned that he changed the serial numbers and he changed files or destroyed files about it.

1129
01:10:03,200 --> 01:10:12,200
Really? So your father in some ways was involved then with the cover-up and changing the serial numbers of the soldiers?

1130
01:10:12,200 --> 01:10:15,200
Some men who cleaned up the debris.

1131
01:10:15,200 --> 01:10:19,200
And he also destroyed files?

1132
01:10:19,200 --> 01:10:24,200
Or changed them?

1133
01:10:24,200 --> 01:10:34,200
A key figure to the whole question, Jesse Marcell Sr. did confirm there was a cover-up that he was not holding the actual debris in the original press photo.

1134
01:10:34,200 --> 01:10:42,200
Yes, he was concerned about Major Marcell and the things that he was saying. He didn't say he shouldn't have said them.

1135
01:10:42,200 --> 01:10:50,200
He just showed voice concern about talking about these things.

1136
01:10:50,200 --> 01:11:00,200
You know, Jesse Marcell seemed a little bit distraught by the fact that he had to retain this secret and lie to the public for the good of his country.

1137
01:11:00,200 --> 01:11:03,200
What he believed was important to national security.

1138
01:11:03,200 --> 01:11:12,200
Did you ever get a sense that your father was disturbed by the official government line about what was recovered there?

1139
01:11:12,200 --> 01:11:17,200
I think it was hard for him to keep the secrets that he knew.

1140
01:11:18,200 --> 01:11:25,200
Even if other people were talking about them and writing books about it, I think he struggled with that.

1141
01:11:25,200 --> 01:11:37,200
He took his role as officer in the Air Force and ensuring national security. He took that very seriously.

1142
01:11:37,200 --> 01:11:49,200
So, yeah, he did what he had to do and was instructed to do and made no apologies.

1143
01:11:49,200 --> 01:12:00,200
You know, we were warned not to talk about Roswell outside the family and we generally didn't talk about it.

1144
01:12:00,200 --> 01:12:06,200
This is the first time I've really talked to people about what he said.

1145
01:12:06,200 --> 01:12:11,200
Some of the threats that others have described were pretty intimidating, right?

1146
01:12:11,200 --> 01:12:17,200
Threats to your career, threats to your safety, threats to your legacy and perhaps even your entire family.

1147
01:12:17,200 --> 01:12:21,200
Your entire family was at risk.

1148
01:12:21,200 --> 01:12:26,200
So, do you think he was protecting you from the secret that he knew?

1149
01:12:26,200 --> 01:12:30,200
Absolutely.

1150
01:12:30,200 --> 01:12:35,200
He said that the world wasn't ready to know the truth about what happened at Roswell.

1151
01:12:35,200 --> 01:12:43,200
And I asked him what he meant by that and he said, well, it would cause social upheaval and problems.

1152
01:12:43,200 --> 01:12:44,200
Why?

1153
01:12:44,200 --> 01:12:49,200
They weren't sure whether the beings were friendly or not.

1154
01:12:49,200 --> 01:13:01,200
By the term beings, she said she understood her dad was referring to extraterrestrials, the aliens who had sent the spaceship that crashed at Roswell to Earth.

1155
01:13:01,200 --> 01:13:07,200
Knowing your dad, what do you think happened at Roswell in 1947?

1156
01:13:07,200 --> 01:13:18,200
Knowing my dad, if it was nothing or a weather balloon, he would have just said what it was and let's move on.

1157
01:13:18,200 --> 01:13:25,200
Do you feel like he had answers to who these possible beings were and where they came from and what they wanted?

1158
01:13:25,200 --> 01:13:30,200
I think he was full of questions about them.

1159
01:13:30,200 --> 01:13:36,200
I don't think he had come up with all the answers about what they found at Roswell.

1160
01:13:47,200 --> 01:13:51,200
I think a guy by the name of Patrick Saunders could have written this journal.

1161
01:13:51,200 --> 01:13:52,200
Wow.

1162
01:13:52,200 --> 01:13:53,200
That actually got me pretty excited.

1163
01:13:53,200 --> 01:13:58,200
That is interesting because it's a whole new person to take a very close look at.

1164
01:13:58,200 --> 01:14:00,200
That opens up a whole other sort of avenue, doesn't it?

1165
01:14:00,200 --> 01:14:02,200
It really does.

1166
01:14:02,200 --> 01:14:17,200
The real possibility that one of Jesse Marcel's fellow officers in the 509th, Patrick Saunders, wrote the journal that was in Marcel's possession is an incredible twist in Ben Smith's investigation of what happened at Roswell.

1167
01:14:17,200 --> 01:14:27,200
Now, Smith wants to go over the results of his investigation with Joe Papalardo, the veteran aviation journalist he has been consulting with from the start.

1168
01:14:27,200 --> 01:14:32,200
No explanation is going to be complete without a physical component, probably.

1169
01:14:32,200 --> 01:14:34,200
Please tell me you found a spaceship.

1170
01:14:34,200 --> 01:14:43,200
Oh, dude, I wish I could tell you that I came back with the smoking gun to prove that it's definitely a mogul balloon or it's definitely an extraterrestrial spacecraft.

1171
01:14:43,200 --> 01:14:48,200
I haven't found anything definitive either way and that is frustrating.

1172
01:14:48,200 --> 01:14:54,200
Well, if it was easy, it would be cracked by now, so I'm eager to hear what you have actually happened covered.

1173
01:14:54,200 --> 01:14:58,200
Chuck Wade claimed that he had a piece of alien spacecraft.

1174
01:14:58,200 --> 01:15:03,200
The lab, unfortunately, could not find anything extraterrestrial about the metal.

1175
01:15:03,200 --> 01:15:06,200
For me, it doesn't really impact the Roswell question either way.

1176
01:15:06,200 --> 01:15:15,200
It was collected on the plains of Santa Guston some distance away, except that it's a knock against the established evidence of ufologists.

1177
01:15:15,200 --> 01:15:21,200
So in terms of the probable crash site, I knew you were going to bring some pretty cool technology to investigate that.

1178
01:15:21,200 --> 01:15:24,200
Did you find anything that would lead you to think that something happened there?

1179
01:15:24,200 --> 01:15:31,200
We found a pretty strange magnetic signature close to what would have been described as the impact identified by witness accounts.

1180
01:15:31,200 --> 01:15:38,200
We took some soil samples, but we couldn't actually find when or why this anomaly was created.

1181
01:15:38,200 --> 01:15:44,200
We haven't found any evidence that definitively proves something extraterrestrial crashed here.

1182
01:15:44,200 --> 01:15:48,200
Did you find anything that would indicate that something else crashed?

1183
01:15:48,200 --> 01:15:53,200
To the south of the established debris field, the FAA crash site investigator,

1184
01:15:53,200 --> 01:15:58,200
found a strange contrast in data that we don't know what it means.

1185
01:15:58,200 --> 01:16:02,200
It's not metal because our magnetometer didn't pick up any metal.

1186
01:16:02,200 --> 01:16:07,200
There might be something that could be some kind of plastic or neoprene layer.

1187
01:16:07,200 --> 01:16:14,200
That would buttress that argument that a balloon crashed there and here's an actual physical remain from it.

1188
01:16:14,200 --> 01:16:21,200
That would be about as close to a smoking gun as someone who doesn't believe in UFOs like myself would cling to desperately probably.

1189
01:16:21,200 --> 01:16:28,200
Yeah, well, a lot of the facts are fuzzy still and I'm still trying to piece the puzzle together.

1190
01:16:28,200 --> 01:16:34,200
But I feel confident that the government lied to the American people about what it collected at that debris field.

1191
01:16:34,200 --> 01:16:40,200
There were others like Jesse in that unit at the 519th group who had some of the same ideas.

1192
01:16:40,200 --> 01:16:47,200
I've spent a lot of time now with the Marcel family and I think at the very least what they wanted was vindication.

1193
01:16:47,200 --> 01:16:54,200
Jesse Marcel's three grandchildren have been eagerly awaiting the results of Ben Smith's investigation

1194
01:16:54,200 --> 01:16:59,200
and want to know what he has found out about the strange journey.

1195
01:16:59,200 --> 01:17:02,200
Thank you guys for making yourselves available to chat with me.

1196
01:17:02,200 --> 01:17:08,200
I wanted to circle back with you and share some interesting turns in the case and some unexpected surprises.

1197
01:17:08,200 --> 01:17:12,200
There's one thing that's still missing from this investigation and that's evidence.

1198
01:17:12,200 --> 01:17:15,200
I mean, there's a piece out there somewhere.

1199
01:17:15,200 --> 01:17:17,200
Well, we didn't find anything yet.

1200
01:17:17,200 --> 01:17:21,200
Jesse, you were there with me in Pennsylvania when we went to the code breaker.

1201
01:17:21,200 --> 01:17:27,200
Without the key, the other half of the puzzle, we can't crack that homebrew code.

1202
01:17:27,200 --> 01:17:32,200
So what's left is to keep looking for that other half.

1203
01:17:32,200 --> 01:17:37,200
But that makes an interesting challenge because we didn't know who wrote it.

1204
01:17:37,200 --> 01:17:46,200
I refocused my efforts back on the inner circle at the 509th group to see if I could identify who might have written the journal.

1205
01:17:46,200 --> 01:17:49,200
I collected a few more handwriting samples.

1206
01:17:49,200 --> 01:17:59,200
There was one individual who actually, with the short sample that we had, matched to some degree that we couldn't rule it out.

1207
01:17:59,200 --> 01:18:01,200
Oh, interesting.

1208
01:18:01,200 --> 01:18:06,200
This would have been the base adjutant at the 509th group.

1209
01:18:06,200 --> 01:18:12,200
The second in command, a guy named Patrick Saunders, he was really close with Colonel Blanchard.

1210
01:18:12,200 --> 01:18:16,200
So close, in fact, that Colonel Blanchard was his best man at his wedding.

1211
01:18:16,200 --> 01:18:18,200
Oh, wow.

1212
01:18:18,200 --> 01:18:24,200
For me, as an intelligence officer, if I'm looking for somebody with access to information, this guy is as close as it gets.

1213
01:18:24,200 --> 01:18:25,200
Definitely.

1214
01:18:25,200 --> 01:18:29,200
Very exciting.

1215
01:18:29,200 --> 01:18:32,200
Did your grandfather ever mention that name to you?

1216
01:18:32,200 --> 01:18:35,200
I don't recall that name coming from him.

1217
01:18:35,200 --> 01:18:40,200
Obviously, they had a relationship for Grandpa to have ended up with that journal.

1218
01:18:40,200 --> 01:18:43,200
I was able to track down his children.

1219
01:18:43,200 --> 01:18:55,200
A lot of the things Patrick Saunders told his children matched what Jesse Sr. told you three, that it was something not of this world, and there was a cover-up.

1220
01:18:55,200 --> 01:18:56,200
No kidding.

1221
01:18:56,200 --> 01:19:08,200
He even mentioned that he was directly responsible for organizing the cover-up by changing the names and the personnel records of people involved in the cleanup effort at the debris field.

1222
01:19:08,200 --> 01:19:10,200
Oh, my gosh.

1223
01:19:10,200 --> 01:19:15,200
Another echo in Patrick Saunders' story with his family is he said almost the exact same things.

1224
01:19:15,200 --> 01:19:20,200
Verbatim, the world isn't ready for this kind of information.

1225
01:19:20,200 --> 01:19:22,200
And Denise, you were with me in Homo.

1226
01:19:22,200 --> 01:19:24,200
Your cousin mentioned the same thing.

1227
01:19:24,200 --> 01:19:26,200
Yep, exact same words.

1228
01:19:26,200 --> 01:19:32,200
His eyes kind of glazed over, and he said there are things that this world is not ready for.

1229
01:19:32,200 --> 01:19:38,200
I wonder if they discussed it, to come up with almost like the same terminology.

1230
01:19:38,200 --> 01:19:41,200
This is just so completely amazing.

1231
01:19:41,200 --> 01:19:46,200
I think you're closer to the truth now than we've ever been, or anybody's ever been. Sounds like it.

1232
01:19:46,200 --> 01:19:53,200
Another interesting comment Patrick Saunders made was actually about Jesse Sr.

1233
01:19:53,200 --> 01:19:59,200
He thought that Jesse had gone too far, that he had said something he shouldn't. He had told the public too much.

1234
01:19:59,200 --> 01:20:07,200
When Grandpa came out in 1978 and told the story about what had happened, I wonder if that worried him a little bit.

1235
01:20:07,200 --> 01:20:11,200
Because I know what would worry me if I was trying to keep something covered up and this man just came out and said,

1236
01:20:11,200 --> 01:20:15,200
no, what we everybody thought was something from here.

1237
01:20:15,200 --> 01:20:18,200
Yeah, that duty to keep quiet is a pretty powerful commitment.

1238
01:20:18,200 --> 01:20:23,200
I think he was courageous for coming out and telling it because he was going against the protocol.

1239
01:20:23,200 --> 01:20:28,200
He felt that everybody deserved to know what the truth was, and that the cover-up needed to end.

1240
01:20:28,200 --> 01:20:41,200
We started this journey together, trying to figure out the journal and to prove with evidence that your grandfather was telling the truth.

1241
01:20:41,200 --> 01:20:49,200
Now we didn't quite get to either of those ends. How do you feel about this investigation and what does it tell you about your grandfather?

1242
01:20:49,200 --> 01:20:58,200
If anything, you've added more credibility to those stories, and I think we're getting closer than ever to resolving them.

1243
01:20:58,200 --> 01:21:10,200
Now I'll just echo that. I think that everything that you've come across has actually more or less confirmed for me that Grandpa and our dad were telling us the truth

1244
01:21:10,200 --> 01:21:13,200
and that they did want everybody to know what really did happen.

1245
01:21:13,200 --> 01:21:19,200
I looked at the journal recently and I found a quote that really captures sort of the investigation, and the quote was,

1246
01:21:19,200 --> 01:21:22,200
keep your eye on the donut and not the hole.

1247
01:21:22,200 --> 01:21:30,200
If we just focus on the lack of evidence, the hole in the center, we missed all the evidence that we have found.

1248
01:21:30,200 --> 01:21:41,200
I think that this journal has more secrets to give, more evidence to point me to than what I've found so far.

1249
01:21:41,200 --> 01:21:44,200
And I'm reluctant to simply put it away.

1250
01:21:50,200 --> 01:21:59,200
To some, Jesse Marcell is a courageous truth-sayer. To others, a man who let his imagination get the best of him.

1251
01:21:59,200 --> 01:22:07,200
Either way, he believed he'd witnessed an extraordinary event and he was not alone.

1252
01:22:07,200 --> 01:22:14,200
I'm Lawrence Fishburne. Thank you for watching History's Greatest Mysteries.